A Response to “Reconsidering The Scripture”
In doing this response, I have noticed that Steve Lehrer is getting confused with the words “heaven and earth”. Every time that the scriptures use this phrase, it does not mean the heaven (sky and the universe) and earth (the planet that we live on). As you will see, this text uses the phrase both ways. You also will need to understand how the Jews used the phrase. In a Jewish mind, this text happened literally. We will go verse by verse. I will quote each verse in a different translation. Figuratively language is used and it literally happened. Scripture and history proves it. There are so many other scriptures that will prove my point. Here are some other articles that will help you in your studies. The New Heaven and New Earth: Millennium, New Jerusalem - Explained , How Heaven and Earth Passed Away, New Heaven and New Earth, More on the Heaven and Earth.
You have a serious problem here. If you believe that the "Heavens and Earth" has not pass away and it is still in the future, by using scripture alone, we are STILL under the law. You are correct, we need to "Reconsider Scripture" and put it into context without twisting in any form or fashion. Also, without using creeds and by using SCRIPTURE ALONE.
Matthew 5:17-18
(ALT) "Do not suppose that I came to tear down [fig., abolish] the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to tear down _but_ to fulfill. "For positively, I say to you*, until the heaven and the earth pass away, by no means shall one iota [i.e., the smallest letter of the Greek alphabet] or one tittle [i.e., a stroke of a letter] pass away from the Law, until all [things] happen.
(ASV) Think not that I came to destroy the law or the prophets: I came not to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass away from the law, till all things be accomplished.
(BBE) Let there be no thought that I have come to put an end to the law or the prophets. I have not come for destruction, but to make complete. Truly I say to you, Till heaven and earth come to an end, not the smallest letter or part of a letter will in any way be taken from the law, till all things are done.
(CEV) Don't suppose that I came to do away with the Law and the Prophets. I did not come to do away with them, but to give them their full meaning. Heaven and earth may disappear. But I promise you that not even a period or comma will ever disappear from the Law. Everything written in it must happen.
(ESV) "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished.
(ISV) "Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I didn't come to destroy them, but to fulfill them. For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not one letter or one stroke of a letter will disappear from the Law until everything has been accomplished.
(KJV) Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
(KJV+) Think 3543 not3361 that3754 I am come2064 to destroy2647 the3588 law,3551 or2228 the3588 prophets:4396 I am not3756 come2064 to destroy,2647 but235 to fulfill.4137 For1063 verily281 I say3004 unto you,5213 Till2193 heaven3772 and2532 earth1093 pass,3928 one1520 jot2503 or2228 one3391 tittle2762 shall in no wise3364 pass3928 from575 the3588 law,3551 till2193 all3956 be fulfilled.1096
(LITV) Do not think that I came to annul the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to annul, but to fulfill. Truly I say to you, Until the heaven and the earth pass away, in no way shall one iota or one point pass away from the Law until all comes to pass.
(MKJV) Do not think that I have come to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I have not come to destroy but to fulfill. For truly I say to you, Till the heaven and the earth pass away, not one jot or one tittle shall in any way pass from the Law until all is fulfilled.
(WEB) "Don't think that I came to destroy the law or the prophets. I didn't come to destroy, but to fulfill. For most certainly, I tell you, until heaven and earth pass away, not even one smallest letter or one tiny pen stroke shall in any way pass away from the law, until all things are accomplished.
(YLT) `Do not suppose that I came to throw down the law or the prophets--I did not come to throw down, but to fulfil; for, verily I say to you, till that the heaven and the earth may pass away, one iota or one tittle may not pass away from the law, till that all may come to pass.
Do you take this to be literal? If not, why not? This text clearly states that the law would still be in tack until heaven and earth passed away. Did Jesus lie or did it really happen? This and more can be found at www.preterism-eschatology.com
1Dear friends, this is now my second letter to you. I have written both of them as reminders to stimulate you to wholesome thinking. 2I want you to recall the words spoken in the past by the holy prophets and the command given by our Lord and Savior through your apostles. 3First of all, you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires. 4They will say, "Where is this 'coming' he promised? Ever since our fathers died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation." 5But they deliberately forget that long ago by God's word the heavens existed and the earth was formed out of water and by water. 6By these waters also the world of that time was deluged and destroyed. 7By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the Day of Judgment and destruction of ungodly men. 8But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. 9The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance. 10But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything in it will be laid bare. 11Since everything will be destroyed in this way, what kind of people ought you to be? You ought to live holy and godly lives 12as you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming. That day will bring about the destruction of the heavens by fire, and the elements will melt in the heat. 13But in keeping with his promise we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, the home of righteousness. 14So then, dear friends, since you are looking forward to this, make every effort to be found spotless, blameless and at peace with him.
· In verse 5 are the words “water” and “earth” meant to be taken figuratively or literally?
2 Peter 3:5
(ALT) For this they willingly forget [or, ignore], that [the] heavens were from of old, and [the] earth having existed out of water and through water by the word of God,
(ASV) For this they willfully forget, that there were heavens from of old, and an earth compacted out of water and amidst water, by the word of God;
(BBE) But in taking this view they put out of their minds the memory that in the old days there was a heaven, and an earth lifted out of the water and circled by water, by the word of God;
(CEV) They will say this because they want to forget that long ago the heavens and the earth were made at God's command. The earth came out of water and was made from water.
(ESV) For they deliberately overlook this fact, that the heavens existed long ago, and the earth was formed out of water and through water by the word of God,
(ISV) But they deliberately ignore the fact that long ago the heavens existed and the earth was formed by God's word out of water and with water,
(KJV) For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
(KJV+) For 1063 this 5124 they846 willingly2309 are ignorant of, 2990 that3754 by the 3588 word3056 of God2316 the heavens 3772 were2258 of old,1597 and2532 the earth 1093 standing4921 out of 1537 the water 5204 and 2532 in1223 the water:5204
(LITV) For this is hidden from them by their willing it so, that heavens were of old, and earth by water, and through water, having subsisted by the Word of God,
(MKJV) For this is hidden from them by their willing it, that the heavens were of old, and the earth out of the water, and through water, being held together by the Word of God,
(WEB) For this they willfully forget, that there were heavens from of old, and an earth formed out of water and amid water, by the word of God;
(YLT) for this is unobserved by them willingly, that the heavens were of old, and the earth out of water and through water standing together by the word of God,
What’s your point? Genesis 1:1-2. God created the heavens and the earth and it was formed out of water, verse 5. The answer to this would be literally.
· In verse 6 are the words “destroyed” and “world” meant to be taken figuratively or literally?
2 Peter 3:6
(ALT) through which the then world, having been flooded by water, was destroyed.
(ASV) by which means the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
(BBE) And that the world which then was came to an end through the overflowing of the waters.
(CEV) Later it was destroyed by the waters of a mighty flood.
(ESV) and that by means of these the world that then existed was deluged with water and perished.
(ISV) by which the world at that time was deluged with water and destroyed.
(KJV) Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
(KJV+) Whereby1223, 3739 the3588 world2889 that then5119 was, being overflowed2626 with water,5204 perished.622
Look at the Greek for the word “world” and “perished or destroy”
G2889 Κόσμος kosmos “WORLD”
1) an apt and harmonious arrangement or constitution, order, government
2) ornament, decoration, adornment, i.e. the arrangement of the stars, ‘the heavenly hosts’, as the ornament of the heavens.
3) the world, the universe
4) the circle of the earth, the earth
5) the inhabitants of the earth, men, the human family
6) the ungodly multitude; the whole mass of men alienated from God, and therefore hostile to the cause of Christ
7) world affairs, the aggregate of things earthly
7a) the whole circle of earthly goods, endowments riches, advantages, pleasures, etc, which although hollow and frail and fleeting, stir desire, seduce from God and are obstacles to the cause of Christ
8) any aggregate or general collection of particulars of any sort
8a) the Gentiles as contrasted to the Jews
8b) of believers only,
G622 ἀπόλλυμι apollumi “PERISHED OR DESTROY”
1) to destroy
1a) to put out of the way entirely, abolish, put an end to ruin
1b) render useless
1c) to kill
1d) to declare that one must be put to death
1e) to perish, to be lost, ruined, destroyed
2) to destroy
2a) to lose
Tell me, is the meaning of this “world” the stars and heavenly host, the universe or is it the inhabitants of the earth? In context, it is talking about the “world” (meaning 4 and 5). What about “perished”? Was the earth ruined, render useless after the flood or was it entirely abolished?
(LITV) through which the world which then was, being flooded by water, perished.
(MKJV) through which the world that then was, being flooded by water, perished.
(WEB) by which means the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished.
(YLT) through which the then world, by water having been deluged, was destroyed;
In order to understand this verse, you need to understand that this goes with verse 5. The answer to this would be literally and figuratively, understanding and using the correct meaning of the words. If you go back to verse 5, it is saying that the “heavens existed and the earth was formed out of water..”, verse 6, “By these waters also the world of THAT time was deluged and destroyed” (NIV) Was the “world” (the heavens and earth) of that time really destroy by water?
· In verse 7 is the word “earth” meant to be taken figuratively or literally?
2 Peter 3:7
(ALT) But the present heavens and the [present] earth having been stored up [or, reserved] for fire by His word are being kept for [the] day of judgment and of destruction of the godless people.
(ASV) but the heavens that now are, and the earth, by the same word have been stored up for fire, being reserved against the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.
(BBE) But the present heaven and the present earth have been kept for destruction by fire, which is waiting for them on the day of the judging and destruction of evil men.
(CEV) But God has commanded the present heavens and earth to remain until the Day of Judgment. Then they will be set on fire, and ungodly people will be destroyed.
(ESV) But by the same word the heavens and earth that now exist are stored up for fire, being kept until the Day of Judgment and destruction of the ungodly.
(ISV) Now by the same word the present heavens and earth have been reserved for fire and are being kept for the day when ungodly people will be judged and destroyed.
(KJV) But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
(KJV+) But1161 the3588 heavens3772 and2532 the3588 earth,1093 which are now,3568 by the3588 same846 word3056 are1526 kept in store,2343 reserved5083 unto fire4442 against1519 the day2250 of judgment2920 and2532 perdition684 of ungodly765 men.444
(LITV) But the heavens and the earth now, having been stored up by the same Word, are being kept for fire to a Day of Judgment and destruction of ungodly men.
(MKJV) But the present heavens and the earth being kept in store by the same Word, are being kept for fire until the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.
(WEB) But the heavens that now are, and the earth, by the same word have been stored up for fire, being reserved against the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.
(YLT) and the present heavens and the earth, by the same word are treasured, for fire being kept to a Day of Judgment and destruction of the impious men.
You
are looking at the wrong word. The key word is “the present heavens and
earth”. It is talking about heavens and earth of the people of the first
century, not ours 2000 years later. The Bible is for us NOT to us. If you
would just read Josephus, you will notice that the temple was divided into two
parts. To the Jew of that time, the temple was their heaven and earth, their
“world”. The answer to this is literally. It happened in 70 AD. If you were a
Jew of that time, you would understand the language that he Bible uses. Go to
Isaiah 34:4, did this really happen. What is this text talking about? If you
read it in context, it is talking about the destruction or downfall of
Isaiah 34:4
(ASV) And all the host of heaven shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall be rolled together as a scroll; and all their host shall fade away, as the leaf fadeth from off the vine, and as a fading leaf from the fig-tree.
(BBE) And the heavens will be rolled together like the roll of a book: and all their army will be gone, like a dead leaf from the vine, or a dry fruit from the fig-tree.
(CEV) Each star will disappear-- the sky will roll up like a scroll. Everything in the sky will dry up and wilt like leaves on a vine or fruit on a tree.
(ESV) All the host of heaven shall rot away, and the skies roll up like a scroll. All their host shall fall, as leaves fall from the vine, like leaves falling from the fig tree.
(KJV) And all the host of heaven shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall be rolled together as a scroll: and all their host shall fall down, as the leaf falleth off from the vine, and as a falling fig from the fig tree.
(KJV+) And all3605 the host6635 of heaven8064 shall be dissolved,4743 and the heavens8064 shall be rolled together1556 as a scroll:5612 and all3605 their host6635 shall fall down,5034 as the leaf5929 falleth off5034 from the vine,4480, 1612 and as a falling5034 fig from the fig tree.4480, 8384
(LITV) And all the host of the heavens shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall be rolled together like a scroll. Then all their host shall droop, as a leaf drooping from the vine, and as the drooping from a fig tree.
(MKJV) And all the host of the heavens shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall be rolled like a scroll; and all their host shall droop, as a leaf falls off from the vine, and as the falling from the fig tree.
(WEB) All of the army of the sky will be dissolved. The sky will be rolled up like a scroll, and all its armies will fade away, as a leaf fades from off a vine or a fig tree.
(YLT) And consumed have been all the host of the heavens, And rolled together as a book have been the heavens, And all their hosts do fade, As the fading of a leaf of a vine, And as the fading one of a fig-tree.
What about Isaiah 13:9-11
(the destruction or downfall of
· In verse 10 are the words “fire” “destroyed” and “earth” meant to be taken figuratively or literally?
2 Peter 3:10
(ALT) But the day of [the] Lord will come like a thief in [the] night, in which the heavens with a loud roar [or, with roaring speed] will pass away, and [the] elements [or, basic teachings] being burned up will be destroyed, and [the] earth and the works in it will be burnt up.
(ASV) But the day of the Lord will come as a thief; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall be dissolved with fervent heat, and the earth and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
(BBE) But the day of the Lord will come like a thief; and in that day the heavens will be rolled up with a great noise, and the substance of the earth will be changed by violent heat, and the world and everything in it will be burned up.
(CEV) The day of the Lord's return will surprise us like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a loud noise, and the heat will melt the whole universe. Then the earth and everything on it will be seen for what they are.
(ESV) But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a roar, and the heavenly bodies will be burned up and dissolved, and the earth and the works that are done on it will be exposed.
(ISV) But the Day of the Lord will come like a thief. On that day the heavens will disappear with a roaring sound, the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything done on it will be exposed.
(KJV) But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
(KJV+) But1161 the3588 day2250 of the Lord2962 will come2240 as5613 a thief2812 in1722 the night;3571 in1722 the which3739 the3588 heavens3772 shall pass away3928 with a great noise,4500 and1161 the elements4747 shall melt3089 with fervent heat,2741 the earth1093 also2532 and2532 the3588 works2041 that are therein1722, 846 shall be burned up.2618
(LITV) But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with rushing sound, and having burned the elements will be dissolved, and earth and the works in it will be burned up.
(MKJV) But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a rushing noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat. And the earth and the works in it will be burned up.
(WEB) But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will be dissolved with fervent heat, and the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up.
(YLT) and it will come--the day of the Lord--as a thief in the night, in which the heavens with a rushing noise will pass away, and the elements with burning heat be dissolved, and earth and the works in it shall be burnt up.
First, let’s take a look
where did Peter get the phrase “..like a thief..”.
He got that phrase from Jesus in Matthew 24:43 and in Luke
Again, you are looking at the wrong word. You should be looking at the word, “elements”. Let’s see how the Bible uses the word.
Galatians 4:3
(ALT) In the same way we also, when we were minors, we were under the rudimentary elements [or, basic teachings] of the world, having been enslaved.
Galatians 4:9
(ALT) But now, having known God, but rather having been known by God, how is it that you* are turning back again to the weak and poor [fig., worthless], rudimentary elements [or, basic teachings] to which once more you* desire again to be serving as a slave?
Colossians 2:8
(ALT) Be watching out lest anyone will be carrying you* away as spoils of war [fig., taking control of you*] through philosophy [or, human wisdom] and empty deception, according to the traditions of people, according to the rudimentary elements [or, basic teachings] of the world and not according to Christ.
Hebrews 5:12
(ALT) For indeed, [though] you* ought to be teachers by this time, you* again have need [for someone] to be teaching you* what [are] the rudimentary elements [or, basic teachings] of the beginning of the oracles of God, and you* have become [ones] having need of milk and not of solid food.
Hebrews 6:1
(ISV) Therefore, leaving behind the elementary (same Greek word) teachings about Christ, let us continue to be carried along to maturity, not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works, faith toward God,
Let’s go back to the Greek and see what the word “elements” is and see if the translators correctly translated the word.
G4747 στοιχεῖον stoicheion
1) any first thing, from which the others belonging to some series or composite whole take their rise, an element, first principal
1a) the letters of the alphabet as the elements of speech, not however the written characters, but the spoken sounds
1b) the elements from which all things have come, the material causes of the universe
1c) the heavenly bodies, either as parts of the heavens or (as others think) because in them the elements of man, life and destiny were supposed to reside
1d) the elements, rudiments, primary and fundamental principles of any art, science, or discipline
You are attaching the wrong meaning to this word in this text. Did the “elements” burn with fervent heat? Yes, it literally happened. The basic teaching of that time was done at the temple and the temple burned with fervent heat. The answer to this would be literally. See Part Four - Greek: Stoicheia
· In verse 13 is the word “earth” meant to be taken figuratively or literally?
2 Peter 3:13
(ALT) But we are waiting for a new heavens and a new earth according to His promise, in which righteousness dwells.
(ASV) But, according to his promise, we look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
(BBE) But having faith in his word, we are looking for a new heaven and a new earth, which will be the resting-place of righteousness.
(CEV) But God has promised us a new heaven and a new earth, where justice will rule. We are really looking forward to that!
(ESV) But according to his promise we are waiting for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.
(ISV) But in keeping with his promise, we are looking forward to new heavens and a new earth, where righteousness is at home.
(KJV) Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
(KJV+) Nevertheless1161 we, according2596 to his846 promise,1862 look for4328 new2537 heavens3772 and2532 a new2537 earth,1093 wherein1722, 3739 dwelleth2730 righteousness.1343
(LITV) But according to His promise, we look for "new heavens and a new earth," in which righteousness dwells. Isa. 65:17
(MKJV) But according to His promise, we look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.
(WEB) But, according to his promise, we look for new heavens and a new earth, in which righteousness dwells.
(YLT) and for new heavens and a new earth according to His promise we do wait, in which righteousness doth dwell;
Go to Revelation 21. John
saw a “new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth
had passed away,..”. When did this happen?
Revelation 1:1 and 22:6 “…must soon take place…”,
(ALT) "For yet [in] a very little while, the One coming will come and will not delay.
(ASV) For yet a very little while, He that cometh shall come, and shall not tarry.
(BBE) In a very little time he who is coming will come; he will not be slow.
(CEV) As the Scriptures say, "God is coming soon! It won't be very long.
(ESV) For, "Yet a little while, and the coming one will come and will not delay;
(ISV) For "in a very little while the one who is coming will return and will not delay;
(KJV) For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry.
(KJV+) For1063 yet,2089 a little while,3397, 3745, 3745 and he that shall come2064 will come,2240 and2532 will not3756 tarry.5549
(LITV) For, yet a very little while, and the One coming will come, "and will not delay." Hab.2:3
(MKJV) For "yet a little while, and He who shall come will come and will not delay."
(WEB) "In a very little while, he who comes will come, and will not wait.
(YLT) for yet a very very little, He who is coming will come, and will not tarry;
· If you are giving different answers to these questions, what within the context of this passage or book allows you to do so? The Bible and Josephus (history). Like I have stated, all of this happen literally from a Jew viewpoint. You have to put yourself in the correct time-frame. From a Futurist (literalist) point of view, you have us living under the Old Law according to scripture, if you want to be consistent with scripture. See: If Christ Has Not Come and What Kind Of God Do We Know?
· If the FP interpretation of this passage is correct and the change from the Old Covenant to the New Covenant is in view, once that change has occurred does this exhortation to live holy and godly lives (v.11) still apply to us today after 70 A.D. and if so, on what biblical basis? The Bible is for us NOT to us. The concepts and applications in the Bible show us how we should live in the presents of God. God, who is the creator of time and uses words that people of that time, could understand. See: Can God Tell Time? ALL of the prophesies in the Bible were ALL fulfilled by 70AD. There is nothing left to be done. God's work is completely done and Jesus did everything that he set out to do. To believe otherwise is to tell God that He lied or He was not able to all things, which would make Him "not" all powerful.