A Response to “Reconsidering Scripture”
1 Corinthians 11:23-26
23For I received from the Lord what I also passed on to you: The Lord Jesus, on the night he was betrayed, took bread, 24and when he had given thanks, he broke it and said, "This is my body, which is for you; do this in remembrance of me." 25In the same way, after supper he took the cup, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in my blood; do this, whenever you drink it, in remembrance of me." 26For whenever you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord's death until he comes.
· In verse 26, Paul writes that we are to practice the Lord’s Supper “until he comes.” Read the article below. If you take this text to be in “our” future, then you have some real big problems. One of the problems is, you have us still under the “old” covenant. That alone causes mega problems, when it come to our forgiveness of sins, salvation and redemption. If God lied about this, one must ask, what else did he lie about and why should people put their lives on the line. It questions the Deity of Christ and all the members of the Godhead. When did the “new covenant” come? In this text alone it shows it didn’t come at the cross or on the day of Pentecost (Acts 2). It wasn’t even here when the book of Hebrews was written around 67-68 AD.
Hebrews 8:13
(ALT)
By the saying "new," He has made the first obsolete. Now the
one becoming obsolete and growing old [is]
on the verge of disappearing.
(ASV)
In that he saith, A new covenant
he hath made the first old. But that which is becoming old and waxeth aged is
nigh unto vanishing away.
(BBE)
When he says, A new agreement, he has made the first agreement old. But
anything which is getting old and past use will not be seen much longer.
(CEV)
When the Lord talks about a new agreement, he means that the first one
is out of date. And anything that is old and useless will soon disappear.
(ESV)
In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete. And what
is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.
(ISV)
In speaking of a "new" covenant, he has made the first one
obsolete, and what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear.
(KJV)
In that he saith, A new covenant,
he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
(KJV+)
In that he saith,3004 A new2537 covenant,
he hath made the first old.3822, 3588, 4413
Now1161 that which decayeth3822 and2532
waxeth old1095 is ready to vanish away.1451, 854
(KJVA)
In that he saith, A new covenant,
he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
(LITV)
In the saying, New, He has made the first old. And the thing being made
old and growing aged is near
disappearing.
(MKJV)
In that He says, A new covenant,
He has made the first one old. Now that which decays and becomes old is ready to vanish away.
(WEB)
In that he says, "A new covenant," he has made the first old.
But that which is becoming old and grows aged is near to vanishing away.
(YLT)
in the saying `new,' He hath made the first old, and what doth become
obsolete and is old is nigh
disappearing.
Tell me, the scriptures tell us that Jesus is the mediator of a better
covenant. Are we living in that covenant or is it still future? If it is in the
future, then Jesus IS NOT our mediator.
Hebrews 8:6
(ALT)
But now He has obtained a far superior sacred service, to the degree
that He is also Mediator of a better covenant, which has been enacted on better
promises.
(ASV)
But now hath he obtained a ministry the more excellent, by so much as he
is also the mediator of a better covenant, which hath been enacted upon better
promises.
(BBE)
But now his position as priest is higher. because through him God has
made a better agreement with man, based on the giving of better things.
(CEV)
Now Christ has been appointed to serve as a priest in a much better way,
and he has given us much assurance of a better agreement.
(ESV)
But as it is, Christ has obtained a ministry that is as much more
excellent than the old as the covenant he mediates is better, since it is
enacted on better promises.
(ISV)
However, Jesus has now obtained a ministry that is as superior to theirs
as the covenant he mediates is founded on better promises.
(KJV)
But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he
is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better
promises.
(KJV+)
But1161 now3570 hath he obtained5177 a more excellent1313 ministry,3009
by how much3745 also2532 he is2076
the mediator3316 of a better2909 covenant,1242
which3748 was established3549 upon1909
better2909 promises.1860
(KJVA)
But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he
is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better
promises.
(LITV)
But now He has gotten a more excellent ministry, also by so much as He
is a Mediator of a better covenant, which has been enacted on better promises.
(MKJV)
But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, by so much He is also
the Mediator of a better covenant, which was built upon better promises.
(WEB)
But now he has obtained a more excellent ministry, by so much as he is
also the mediator of a better covenant, which on better promises has been given
as law.
(YLT)
and now he hath obtained a more excellent service, how much also of a
better covenant is he mediator, which on better promises hath been sanctioned,
Look at the gospels accounts of what
we call the “Lord’s Supper”. In Matthew’s account, Matthew 26:17-30 it uses the phrase “..until that
day..” (Verse 29, ). In Mark’s account, 26:12-26, it uses the same phrase,
verse 25. If you noticed that in this text it was part of the Passover (OC). I
was not something separate. In Luke’s account, 22:7-20, it uses the phrase,
“…until the
· When will or did the “coming” that is referred to in this verse take place? When did the “coming”, “that day”, kingdom of God, all happen?: 70 AD, you have some major problems, if you put these events in the future.
· What are the
implications of this statement for your practice of this ordinance if the
“coming” spoken about here happened in 70 A.D.? Read the article: Is the Lord’s
Supper Still Required Today? This goes into detail on this
topic. For whom did Jesus come? You and me
or the “lost sheep of
3I thank my God every time I remember you. 4In all my prayers for all of you, I always pray with joy 5because of your partnership in the gospel from the first day until now, 6being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus. 7It is right for me to feel this way about all of you, since I have you in my heart; for whether I am in chains or defending and confirming the gospel, all of you share in God's grace with me. 8God can testify how I long for all of you with the affection of Christ Jesus. 9And this is my prayer: that your love may abound more and more in knowledge and depth of insight, 10so that you may be able to discern what is best and may be pure and blameless until the day of Christ, 11filled with the fruit of righteousness that comes through Jesus Christ--to the glory and praise of God.
· When is or was the day of Christ Jesus that Paul refers to in verses 6 and 10? 70AD. Who is the “you” in verse 6? Paul state that the good work would be “completed” on “the day of Christ Jesus”, which is 70AD when He returned.. If verse 6 has not happen, then that means Paul is still praying for “joy, because of your” (the people that Paul is writing to), which would mean that there are a lot of people who are quite old. The phase “partnership in the gospel from the first day until now” (that “now” is the time that Paul wrote this letter). Attached the correct time-frame to the scripture you are quoting.
· What will happen or happened on that day? The Second Coming of Christ, Judgment, Redemption, Salvation, the bondage (“the sinful nature” (see Part One) the law) decaying away, the beginning of a New Covenants.
·
If the day was in the past, has God “completed the good work” he began in you? Again, using the correct time-frame, the “you” meaning the first
century, the answer would be YES. When Jesus was on the cross, the last thing
that Jesus said was, “It is finish”.
John 19:30
(ALT)
So when Jesus received the wine vinegar, He said, "It has been
finished!" And having bowed His head, He gave up His spirit.
(ASV)
When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished:
and he bowed his head, and gave up his spirit.
(BBE)
So when Jesus had taken the wine he said, All is done. And with his head
bent he gave up his spirit.
(CEV)
After Jesus drank the wine, he said, "Everything is done!" He
bowed his head and died.
(ESV)
When Jesus had received the sour wine, he said, "It
is finished," and he bowed his head and gave up his spirit.
(ISV)
After Jesus had taken the wine, he said, "It
is finished." Then he bowed his head and released his spirit.
(KJV)
When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished:
and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.
(KJV+)
When3753 Jesus2424 therefore3767
had received2983 the3588 vinegar,3690
he said,2036 It is finished:5055
and2532 he bowed2827 his head,2776
and gave up3860 the3588 ghost.4151
(KJVA)
When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished:
and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.
(LITV)
Then when Jesus took the vinegar, He said, It has been finished. And
bowing His head, He delivered up the spirit.
(MKJV)
Then when Jesus had received the sour wine, He said, It is finished! And
He bowed His head and gave up the
spirit.
(MSG)
After he took the wine, Jesus said, "It's done . . .
complete." Bowing his head, he offered up his spirit.
(WEB)
When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, "It is finished." He bowed his head, and
gave up his spirit.
(YLT) when, therefore, Jesus received the vinegar, he said, `It hath been finished;' and having bowed the head, gave up the spirit.
Did Jesus complete all of His work that He set out to do? Did everything in the law and prophets been fulfilled through Him? If you answer “NO” to any to these questions, you are saying that Jesus lied. God started His work in Genesis 1:1 and completed His work in Revelation 21:21. Sure God works in our lives today. He is alive and active. Nothing escapes God. You are trying to make me say that God is not working today in our lives. There are applications and principles in the Bible that still apply to us. The Bible shows us how we should live, act. Remember that the Bible if FOR us NOT TO us. It is FOR us, showing us what God has done and it shows us His love, His power. It tells us how we should live in His presence. It tells us what kind of relationship we should have with Him and with each other.
· What is the “good work” that Paul is referring to? The gospel by living it.
· Why does Paul pray for the believers be pure and blameless only until the “day of Christ”? Paul knew that the time was short. He knew what the first century Christians will be going through.
·
1 Timothy 6:14-15 says something very similar but rather than “day of Christ”,
Paul writes “until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ.” Is Paul’s
exhortation in 1 Timothy referring to the same day as the “day of Christ” and
did Christ “appear” in 70 A.D.? The “day of Christ” and “appearing of or Lord Jesus Christ are the same
event. Also if you look at the “Lord’s Supper” the gospels is saying “that day”
or “until He comes” or “until the
Full Preterist denies that
Scripture teaches that there will be a general physical/bodily resurrection in
the future. In light of this, Paul’s hope of attaining a “resurrection”
in Philippians 3:10-11 should be challenging for Full Preterists to interpret
in a consistent and coherent fashion. First of all you are pulling this
text out of context. Put the text into the correct time-frame. Read comments: 1
Corinthians 15 in Part Two.
10I want to know Christ and the power of his resurrection and the fellowship of sharing in his sufferings, becoming like him in his death, 11and so, somehow, to attain to the resurrection from the dead.
·
What exactly is Paul hoping to attain (examine the meaning of
“resurrection” and “dead” in this context) and when does/will he attain
it? 70AD. If you take this literally,
then Paul was crucified, “becoming like him in his death” and we must be
crucified today. Remember, you take other text literally and then you should
take this literally. You have to be consistent. Tell me, was Paul crucified
“just like Jesus”?
One of the biggest differences between Full Preterists and non-Full Preterists is our understanding about what Scripture teaches regarding the “body” and the change that is said to take place at some point in the future. Full Preterist does not believe that Scripture teaches that there will be physical change in the bodies of believers. Non-Full Preterists believe that Scripture teaches that both Christ experienced a physical/bodily transformation and that all believers will also experience such a physical bodily change at the time of his, yet future, coming. This passage that speaks of “bodily” change seems to be at odds with FP and therefore is a challenging passage for adherents of that theological point of view to interpret.
20But our citizenship is in heaven. And we eagerly await a Savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ, 21who, by the power that enables him to bring everything under his control; will transform our lowly bodies so that they will be like his glorious body.
·
What exactly does Paul mean when he says Christ “will transform our lowly
bodies”? How will our “lowly bodies” be like “Christ’s glorious
body”? You are looking through your physical
eyes. When Jesus returned “their” bodies NOT our today, was “transform” into
bodies like Jesus’ body. Not physically, but spiritually. They passed from
death (Old Covenant) into life (New Covenant). The scriptures states that our
bodies after they die, will turn back to dirt. Nowhere does it say that the dirt
will turn back to life and human form. Throughout this response, do you notice
that the resurrection, salvation, forgiveness of sins, adoption as sons are all
tied to the Second Coming of Christ. If Christ Has Not Come, then we would be
in bad shape. You miss quote the text; it says “body” NOT “bodies”. Romans 12:5
So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of
another. The body of Christ was at this point in a state of humiliation,
waiting for redemption, persecuted by "enemies of the cross" (verse
18). Colossians 2:16-17 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or
in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are
a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ. Colossians 1:18 And he
is the head of the body, the church.
· When did/will this happen? 70 AD, Jesus taught that all these events would happen within the lifetime of those then living. Paul trusted Christ on this point and so should we today.
· Is your body already like “Christ’s glorious body” in a way that Paul’s body and the bodies of those he was writing to were not? Yes. In Christ we are perfect. It is because of what He did we have been made perfect. It is because of His coming “death” has been destroyed. 2 Timothy 1:10. Because of His coming “the devil’s works” are destroyed, 1 John 3:8. Please read, Does SATAN Exist Today Kevin Craig writes: “The question is whether the Body of Christ (the Church) (RKM: and the church is the people ) is like Christ's glorious body in a way the Church was not before the destruction of the temple. I would say yes, the Church is more like Christ today than it was when Paul wrote the Philippians. It's easy to find fault with the Church today; much easier than being grateful.”
Acts 1:9-11
This text is a crux interpretum for FP. I believe this is the clearest text that speaks about the manner of a “coming” of Christ. If the expected 2nd coming of Christ is being spoken about here, the text seems to imply that the physical body of Christ will be seen descending in the same visible manner that the disciples had just seen him ascend. Comments RKM: Please read the following articles: The Advent of Christ In Acts 2, The Parousia and Acts 1:11 If Jesus was to return physically the his return would bring back the Old Law. In turn that means His death and resurrection is all in vain.
9After he said
this, he was taken up before their very eyes, and a cloud hid him from their
sight. 10They were looking intently up into the sky as he was going,
when suddenly two men dressed in white stood beside them. 11"Men
of
· Is this text referring to the “coming of Christ” at 70 A.D.? Yes, I’ll ask you again, when the Bible speaks about the “coming of Christ” who decides if it future or not? In context over and over, the scriptures tell us that the “coning of Christ” happen in their generation NOT ours. Kevin Craig puts it this way: “The parallels are much greater between Acts 1 and AD 70 than the parallels between Acts 1 and Hal Lindsey's Second Coming fiction. The physical description of Christ's Ascension in Acts 1 is downright boring compared to modern futurist apocalypticism. A physical description of Christ's return in AD70 might be seen (or unseen) as equally boring. An accurate theological description of Acts 1 is much more exciting, as is a theological description of the Second Coming in AD 70. Here is Daniel's theological description of Luke's history in Acts 1:
I kept looking in the
night visions,
And behold, with the
clouds of heaven
One like a Son of Man
was coming,
And He came up to the
Ancient of Days
And was presented
before Him.
And to Him was given
dominion,
Glory and a Kingdom,
That all the peoples, nations,
and men of every language
Might serve Him.
His dominion is an
everlasting dominion
Which will not pass
away;
And His Kingdom is one
Which will not be
destroyed. (Dan. 7:13-14)
Did anyone see all this? Does that mean it didn't happen?
Similarly, we have in many New Testament passages a theological description of what "actually" happened in AD70. These
theological descriptions were never intended to be Hal Lindseyized.”
·
If so, how did He come back “in the same way you have seen him go into heaven”?
The phrase “coming in the clouds” to a Jew meant
judgment. I have a question for you.
Jesus told the High Priest (Caiaphas) that he would see the Son of Man (Jesus)
coming in the clouds. Matthew 26:57-67 Mark
·
If not, what “coming” is this text referring to? Consider 1 Thessalonians
Many Full Preterists understand the resurrection of the dead to refer to spiritual resurrection or God giving spiritual life to his people. Yet in the FP timeline this giving of life did not really happen until 70 A.D. This passage certainly talks about spiritual death and life. It even uses resurrection language in verse 6 (“raised us up”). But it seems as if Paul writes about this spiritual resurrection as already having happened to those who believe (prior to 70 A.D.).
1As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, 2in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. 3All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our sinful nature [1] and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature objects of wrath. 4But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions--it is by grace you have been saved. 6And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, 7in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus.
· Is this text
referring to spiritual resurrection that was occurring before 70 A.D.? In a sense, Yes, but not what you think. Baptism:
Rom 6:3-4
(ALT)
Or do you* fail to understand that we, as many as were baptized [or, immersed] into Christ Jesus, were baptized
into His death? Therefore, we were buried together with Him through the baptism
[or, immersion] into death, so that even
as Christ was raised up from [the] dead
through the glory of the Father, so also _we_ should walk about [fig., conduct ourselves] in newness of
life.
(ASV)
Or are ye ignorant that all we who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized
into his death? We were buried therefore with him through baptism unto death:
that like as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father,
so we also might walk in newness of life.
(BBE)
Or are you without the knowledge that all we who had baptism into Christ
Jesus, had baptism into his death? We have been placed with him among the dead
through baptism into death: so that as Christ came again from the dead by the
glory of the Father, we, in the same way, might be living in new life.
(CEV)
Don't you know that all who share in Christ Jesus by being baptized also
share in his death? When we were baptized, we died and were buried with Christ.
We were baptized, so that we would live a new life, as Christ was raised to
life by the glory of God the Father.
(ESV)
Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus
were baptized into his death? We were buried therefore with him by baptism into
death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of
the Father, we too might walk in newness of life.
(ISV)
Or don't you know that all of us who were baptized into union with
Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? Therefore, through baptism we were
buried with him into his death so that, just as Christ was raised from the dead
by the Father's glory, we too may live an entirely new life.
(KJV)
Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were
baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into
death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the
Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
(KJV+)
(2228) Know ye not,50 that3754
so many of us as3745 were baptized907 into1519
Jesus2424 Christ5547 were baptized907 into1519
his848 death?2288 Therefore3767
we are buried4916 with him846 by1223
baptism908 into1519 death:2288
that2443 like as5618 Christ5547
was raised up1453 from1537 the dead3498
by1223 the3588 glory1391
of the3588 Father,3962 even2532
so3779 we2249 also2532
should walk4043 in1722 newness2538
of life.2222
(KJVA)
Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were
baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into
death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the
Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
(LITV)
Or are you ignorant that all who were baptized into Christ Jesus were
baptized into His death? Therefore, we were buried with Him through baptism
into death, that as Christ was raised up from the
dead by the glory of the Father, so also we should walk in newness of life.
(MKJV)
Do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ
were baptized into His death? Therefore we were buried with Him by baptism into
death, so that as Christ was raised up from the
dead by the glory of the Father; even so we also should walk in newness of
life.
(MSG)
Or didn't you realize we packed up and left there for good? That is what
happened in baptism. When we went under the water, we left the old country of
sin behind; when we came up out of the water, we entered into the new country
of grace--a new life in a new land! That's what baptism into the life of Jesus
means. When we are lowered into the water, it is like the burial of Jesus; when
we are raised up out of the water, it is like the resurrection of Jesus.
(WEB)
Or don't you know that all we who were baptized into Christ Jesus were
baptized into his death? We were buried therefore with him through baptism to
death, that just like Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the
Father, so we also might walk in newness of life.
(YLT)
are ye ignorant that we, as many as were baptized to Christ Jesus, to
his death were baptized? we were buried together, then, with him through the
baptism to the death, that even as Christ was raised up out of the dead through
the glory of the Father, so also we in newness of life might walk.
·
How is this possible, and how does that impact your understanding of Philippians
Why don’t you read the Bible. Jesus
tells you the answers to your questions in verses 36-43 and in context, He was
talking about the people living at that time NOT to a group of people 2000 years
in the future.
Full Preterist teaches that the revelation of God’s judgment that occurred in 70 A.D. was “the end of the age” and since then we have been in what Scripture calls “the age to come.” The problem is that this passage seems to teach that the end of the age coincides with world judgment at which time all unbelievers will be swept off into hell and the world will only be populated by those who truly love God. This interpretation is clearly at odds with FP and therefore it would seem that Full Preterists must find another convincing way to interpret this text.
Before you read on, why don’t you
reread “Does Satan Exist Today” and Satan in
the New Covenant. Look at the whole picture. Also read The Parable of the
Weeds.
24Jesus told them another parable: "The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field. 25But while everyone was sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat, and went away. 26When the wheat sprouted and formed heads, then the weeds also appeared. 27"The owner's servants came to him and said, 'Sir, didn't you sow good seed in your field? Where then did the weeds come from?' 28" 'An enemy did this,' he replied. "The servants asked him, 'Do you want us to go and pull them up?' 29" 'No,' he answered, 'because while you are pulling the weeds, you may root up the wheat with them. 30Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn.' "
36Then
he left the crowd and went into the house. His disciples came to him and said,
"Explain to us the parable of the weeds in the field." 37He
answered, "The one who sowed the good seed is the Son of
47"Once again, the kingdom of heaven is like a net that was let down into the lake and caught all kinds of fish. 48When it was full, the fishermen pulled it up on the shore. Then they sat down and collected the good fish in baskets, but threw the bad away. 49This is how it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come and separate the wicked from the righteous 50and throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
·
Who are symbolized by the wheat? Read the text. Jesus explains it for us.
·
Who are symbolized by the weeds?
·
What exactly happens at the “harvest”?
·
What does it mean for the weeds to be pulled up and burned by fire?
·
It says that the harvest and the burning of the weeds happen at the end of the
age. Are there “weeds” in the world today that have not yet been “pulled
up” and “burned”? I noticed that you say “end of the age”. What age are you talking about?
According to scripture, the “age” in the Bible is the ending of the Old
Covenant (the law) age.
·
Has “everything that causes sin and all who do evil” been “weeded out” yet?
·
Have the angels come and separated the wicked from the righteous yet (v. 49)?
· If there still are “weeds” or wicked people in the world today, how could the end of the age have occurred at 70 A.D.? Read article: The Parable of the Weeds
The charge of “heresy” or even “damnable heresy” is often leveled at Full Preterists. This is not a charge that should ever be leveled at someone lightly. In the light of this passage, Full Preterist at least have the appearance of being an heretical system of doctrine and therefore Full Preterists have certainly have some explaining to do. In this passage Paul speaks of two men who believed that the resurrection was a past event as heretics and dangerous. Many Full Preterists teach that the resurrection already took place.
16Avoid godless chatter, because those who indulge in it will become more and more ungodly. 17Their teaching will spread like gangrene. Among them are Hymenaeus and Philetus, 18who have wandered away from the truth. They say that the resurrection has already taken place, and they destroy the faith of some.
· Does Full Preterism believe that the resurrection has already taken place?
· If so, how does Full Preterism differ from the teaching of Hymenaeus and Philetus?
To answer this question please read: Preterism And The
Question Of Heresy , A Study Of The
Resurrection and How Is This
Possible?
On the face of it, in this text the Lord seems to be speaking of a physical/bodily rising for judgment of every single believer and unbeliever that is physically in the grave. If the surface reading is correct, then this event clearly could not have happened in 70 A.D. nor would it be referring to a spiritual resurrection. Therefore, FP has yet another set of challenges to overcome in this passage.
28"Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who
are in their graves will hear his voice 29and come out--those who
have done good will rise to live, and those who have done evil will rise to be
condemned. 30By myself I can do nothing; I judge only as I hear, and
my judgment is just, for I seek not to please myself but him who sent me.
· What do the words “graves” “come out” “rise” and “live” mean here?
· Who does the group “all who are in their graves” consist of (Is it every dead person in the world or is it a reference to a limited group)? The people that were in the graves, are the people who did under the Old Coventant. In another words, from 70AD back to the begining of time (Adam and Eve).
· When will or did this happen? 70 AD. We must also take into consideration the fact that both the righteous and wicked dead will be resurrected on the same day. I Thess. 4:16 says the dead in Christ rise on the day of his return. This resurrection is described, by Christ, in John 6, as being the 'last day'. This day of resurrection is also reserved for the wicked. John 5:28,29 reads, "the hour is coming when all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation." Therefore, based upon these verses alone, we could establish that the gathering and the resurrection of the righteous and the wicked will occur at the same 'last day', when the Lord Jesus Christ was to come again.
John 5:28-29 "Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming ("...even now...it is the last hour. "I John 1:18) in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth - those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation." Take a look how John uses words. Look at John 5:28-29, he says "for the hour is coming" and in 1 John 1:18, John says, "it is the LAST hour. How can John say this and he be talking about something 2000 years in the future. Today we use the same terminology, when we are expecting something. God uses words and phrase that we could understand back then and now. We have to put the correct time frame in understand the scripture.
Resurrection language and reference to a “last day” are important issues in our discussion with Full Preterist. Non-Full Preterists see this passage as a reference to the physical appearance of the Lord that will occur in the future and the physical resurrection of believers. A Full Preterist who encounters this passage needs to define these terms without being at odds with this same language in passages like John 5:28-30 and without cutting the legs out from under his own FP theological viewpoint.
41At this the Jews began to grumble about him because he said, "I am the bread that came down from heaven." 42They said, "Is this not Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How can he now say, 'I came down from heaven'?" 43"Stop grumbling among yourselves," Jesus answered. 44"No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day.
· What does it mean to “come” to Christ and is that event chronologically separate from being “raised up at the last day”?
·
What does “raise him up” mean in verse 44? Consider John
·
When was or will be the last day? Consider Philippians 1:3-9 in your
answer. 70AD Please read:
Philippians 4:5 - Spatialogy or Eschatology.
This will answer your consider Philippians comment.
:
You have to look at the whole picture. You are pulling verses out of
context and not looking at other text. Please read the following articles: Introduction To The
Revelation, Challenging
Concepts Of The Resurrection, The Resurrection of the Flesh. Why do you take some scripture literally and not others?
Below are articles that cover this
section (chapter in detail. All of your questions are covered plus some in these
articles. You really need to “Reconsider Scriptures” by putting it into context
and looking at the WHOLE picture. What else could I say? You need to “Reconsider
Scripture”. I don’t see any reason to answer questions that have already been
answer. I would just put down the same
answer.
This final text is perhaps the most difficult for Full Preterist to interpret in a manner that does not do harm to the Scriptures. On the face of it, this chapter of 1 Corinthians argues for continuity between the physical resurrection of Christ and the physical resurrection of believers. In fact, Paul has traditionally been understood to be arguing that if you deny the general physical resurrection of believers you are denying the physical resurrection of Christ and thereby denying the faith! So Full Preterists must do some hard work at interpreting this text in a responsible manner that will vindicate their system of theology from the charge of denying the faith altogether.
1Now, brothers, I want to remind you of the
gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your
stand. 2By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word
I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain. 3For what I
received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our
sins according to the Scriptures, 4that he was buried, that he was
raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5and that he
appeared to Peter, and then to the Twelve. 6After that, he appeared
to more than five hundred of the brothers at the same time, most of whom are
still living, though some have fallen asleep. 7Then he appeared to
James, then to all the apostles, 8and last of all he appeared to me
also, as to one abnormally born. 9For I am the least of the apostles
and do not even deserve to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the
· In verse 4 when it says Christ was raised, was he raised physically?
·
When people saw him did they see his resurrected physical body?
12But if it is preached that Christ has been raised from the
dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead?
·
Is there a difference between the meaning of “raised from the dead” in 12a and
“resurrection of the dead in 12b?
13If there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. 14And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith. 15More than that, we are then found to be false witnesses about God, for we have testified about God that he raised Christ from the dead. But he did not raise him if in fact the dead are not raised. 16For if the dead are not raised, then Christ has not been raised either.
· Paul seems to be tying a denial of the resurrection of the dead in general to a necessary denial of the resurrection of Christ. How do you explain this?