Response To Gentry’s Analysis of the Full Preterist View

©1997 Edward E. Stevens, Editor

Kingdom Counsel

 

Introduction

Creedal Failure

Biblical Perspicuity

Without A Canon?

Hermeneutic Failure

Resurrection Errors

Anthropological Errors?

Greeks and Pharisees

Effects of the Resurrection?

Christological Implications?

A 40-Year Millenium?

History and Church Errors

Great Commission and Lord's Supper

Conclusion

Appendix 1

 

 

Introduction

We wish to thank Dr. Kenneth Gentry for taking time out of his extremely busy schedule (teacher at Christ College, full-time senior pastor for Reedy River Presbyterian Church, three different book contracts with major Christian publishers, writer for various Reformed publications, speaker all over the country, with many other responsibilities too numerous to mention) to compose such a clear critique of the full Preterist position. It has stimulated much thought and discussion on the Internet, and has precipitated this and several other responses. Many will benefit from all this interaction.

Thanks especially to who read the rough draft and submitted many valuable suggestions for improvement. Among those who made significant contributions in this regard were Walt Hibbard, David Chilton, Ken Davies, David Green, Albert Pigeon, Mark Baker, Pat Forseth, Michael Grasso, Joe Lewis, Arthur Melanson, Joe Canfield, Jim Plummer and Bob Lewis. Several in the online Preterist discussion groups also made valuable suggestions. I can’t remember them all, but they are much appreciated just the same. I also wish to thank those who helped financially underwrite my research and writing during the production of this response. Your partnership was a Godsend. May God richly reward you for it.

Gentry first wrote his “Analysis” in 1995. I did not hear about it nor receive a copy of it until late in 1996. As soon as I received it, I began writing a response. Before this could be finished, Chalcedon Report (July, 1997, issue #384, edited by Andrew Sandlin) decided to reprint Gentry’s “Analysis” along with two other articles by Andrew Sandlin and Jim West which were also critical of the full Preterist view. Most of the concerns raised by Sandlin and West have been addressed in this response to Gentry, so I will merely attach an appendix (Appendix II) at the end of this response to deal with the items that were not covered.

If you would like to receive a copy of Gentry’s original “Analysis”, it is available for any who request it. We can send it by email if you prefer. But, I really don’t think that is necessary. Almost all of it is included in the excerpts at the beginning of each section here, so as to convey Gentry’s primary concerns, make our points clear, and enable this to basically be a stand-alone document. Nothing of significance was left out as far as I am aware. Quotes from Gentry will be set off from the text of our response by a non-indented boldfaced all-cap bracketed [GENTRY], followed by a quote in all italics, as you see immediately below. Paragraphs without the bracketed “Gentry” are this author’s response to Gentry. Let’s get right into the interaction with his opening statements.

[GENTRY] The "consistent Preterist" believes that all prophecy is fulfilled in the A.D. 70 destruction of the Temple, including the Second Advent, the resurrection of the dead, the great judgment, etc.

Gentry is not exactly correct when he states that full Preterists believe “that all prophecy is fulfilled in the AD 70 destruction of the Temple, including the Second Advent, the resurrection of the dead, the great judgment, and so forth.” This leaves the impression that we don’t believe there are any ongoing fulfillments of prophecy in the eternal kingdom today, and is similar to the incorrect charge of “post-everythingism” in David Chilton’s Paradise Restored (p. 138), which was written before he himself adopted the full Preterist position.

Full Preterists believe that both Old and New Testaments speak of an ongoing rule and “healing of the nations” as well as a continual growth and spread of the kingdom. As Rev. 21 and 22 show, there are definitely some ongoing implications of the kingdom that very much apply to us and the world after AD 70. Much of Jesus’ teaching was directly related to life in the kingdom. It began among the Jews in a provisional way at Pentecost, but became empire-wide and irreversible by AD 70. The destruction of Jerusalem was a milestone in the development of the kingdom of God, but it was not the end of the kingdom nor its fullest development. The kingdom was destined not just to survive in some small isolated corner of the world, but to conquer the cultures and nations of the world and become the dominant force shaping human life. The kingdom has made significant progress toward that dominion mandate already, but the best is yet to come! Jesus talked about the little mustard seed which starts out almost imperceptibly, yet grows and becomes large enough to provide shelter for all the birds of the sky (see Mk. 4:30-32). Other passages talk about the growth of the kingdom after AD 70 until it becomes so pervasive it is like a river overflowing its banks and providing life to all the nations (cf. Ezek. 47:1ff and Rev. 21:22–22:5). Jesus repeatedly introduced His parables and discourses with the phrase, “The kingdom is like unto...” Full Preterists do not reject the relevancy and applicability of Scripture to the post-70 church, no more than Gentry would reject the application of the atonement of Christ to us today (even though it was a once-for-all fulfillment of prophecy that occurred two thousand years ago in a remote corner of the world and was largely ignored by the media of that day). The meaning and benefits of those once-for-all fulfillments still apply to everyone who is a part of the kingdom in this or any future age. So Gentry’s charge that the full Preterist view destroys Biblical relevance beyond AD 70 is misdirected.

[GENTRY] I do not know how anyone could credibly claim to be postmillennial and hyper-Preterist, nor do I understand how they could claim to be Reconstructionists, while maintaining their hyper-Preterism. If all prophecy was fulfilled in the first century events, then who is to say it is the will of God for the gospel to exercise world-wide victory? There is no remaining word of prophecy to inform us of such.

It’s not clear what Gentry intended to communicate when he used the term “hyper” in “hyper-Preterist.” Surely he is not using it for ridicule or derisive purposes, although others on the Internet have so used it. I fail to see what point Gentry is making, that could not be made with a less pejorative term. Why not simply stick with “consistent Preterist” (as in his opening paragraph), or “comprehensive Preterist” (as in his third paragraph)? Actually the term “preterist” is all that is needed to describe our view. “Preterist” means past in fulfillment. Only those who take a past fulfillment of all the eschatological events (e.g. the return of Christ, resurrection, judgment) can rightly be called “Preterist.” Those who believe the major eschatological events (i.e. Second Coming, Resurrection, Judgment) are still future are really just another kind of futurist. So Gentry and other “partial Preterists” should more properly be labeled amil or postmillennial historicists or futurists. Only someone who puts all of the eschatological events in the past can rightly be called “preterist” in the true sense of the term. Gentry and most other postmil Reconstructionists claim to be “Preterists”, but in reality they are only postmil futurists, historicists, or idealists. The term “preterist” belongs to the “full Preterist,” not to the “partial Preterist” futurists like Gentry.

If the term “hyper-preterist” is valid at all, it would only properly apply to those rare extreme Preterists who take everything in the Bible as past in fulfillment with no ongoing fulfillments or contemporary applications. Such would be subject to the charge of “post-everythingism.” These folks would see the church as a temporary transitional phase of the Kingdom, with its phase-out in AD 70. These folks would also see baptism, the Lord’s Supper and other such physical expressions of our ongoing covenant relationship with God as being no longer valid in the post-70 Kingdom. This is certainly an extreme “hyper” Preterist position, and very few have taken that route. The vast majority of full Preterists believe in an ongoing fulfillment and application of the Kingdom principles found in both the OT and NT (e.g. Ezek. 47:1ff and Rev. 21-22; Jesus’ kingdom parables; and much of Paul’s teaching about the Kingdom). So, Gentry has misunderstood what full Preterists are saying, and has misrepresented us as being “hyper-preterists” when in fact we are not.

Even though Gentry says he has “not had time to deal extensively with the issue,” I do know he was directly exposed to a significant amount of Preterist thinking in preparation for participation in and during the week-long Covenant Eschatology Symposium held in Orlando, Florida in January, 1993, where Max King and his son Tim assembled with a dozen of the best Reformed theologians in the USA to interact with Max’s brand of full Preterism (“covenant eschatology”). Gentry presented an excellent paper there in defense of his pre-70 date for the book of Revelation, in conformity with his excellent book on that subject, Before Jerusalem Fell (hereafter referred to as “BJF”). His presentation there explained some of the significance of AD 70 for Judaism and Christianity. But, some of the argumentation in Gentry’s “Analysis” that we are responding to here, sounds more like the critical comments made by some of the other non-Preterist speakers in that 1993 Florida symposium. Gentry admits in his first paragraph that he has “a great number” of full Preterist publications and books in his library. So, he has been exposed to the full Preterist viewpoint fairly extensively, both pro and con. He is familiar enough with it in some areas to begin to critique it, and we will point out other areas where we feel he has misunderstood it.

Gentry asks how full Preterists within the Reformed and Reconstructionists communities can consistently claim to be both postmil or Reconstructionists and full Preterist at the same time. This is a legitimate question. Let’s deal with the postmil idea first.

What does the term postmil really mean? It is used in reference to the return of Christ. It means that Christ would return “after” (post) the millennium. It is not necessarily saying Christ’s return is future or past, but merely that the return occurs after the millennium. This means a Preterist (past fulfillment of Christ’s return) can be a postmil just as easily as a futurist. There are postmil Preterists and there are postmil futurists. Almost all full Preterists believe the millennium occurred during the period from AD 30-70, and that Christ returned in AD 70 at the end of that millennial period. So, full Preterists can be postmils in respect to the technical meaning of the word. But, we are not postmil futurists (or partial Preterists) like Gentry.

[GENTRY] Furthermore, the hyper-Preterist position cannot be theonomic in that in their view the Law came to fulfillment in the passing away of the Jewish order (Matt. 5:17-19). So a hyper-Preterist cannot be a Reconstructionists (theonomic postmillennialist) on exegetical grounds (although his heart might wish for the Reconstructionists worldview).

In regard to Gentry’s charge that full Preterists cannot consistently be theonomic or Reconstructionists, I would agree with him only if his interpretation of Matt. 5:17-19 is the correct one. Notice what this text says:

“Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish, but to fulfill. For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass away from the Law, until all is accomplished. Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and so teaches others, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.” (Matt. 5:17-19, NASV, emphasis added)

The question is whether we are consistent with what the text says, not whether we are consistent with how fellow Reconstructionists interpret it. Full Preterists interpret Matt. 5:17-19 as being past in fulfillment. We believe the Old Testament world (the old “heaven and earth”) passed away at AD 70, so the Old Testament Law is no longer binding upon us in the same way it was upon Jewish Christians living in Palestine before the end of the Jewish government in AD 70. Notice the tight connection in this text between the end of the old heaven and earth and the arrival of the kingdom. Does this sound familiar? Yes! Heb. 12:22-29 makes the same connection. The unshakable kingdom is the new heaven and earth, and it arrives when the old covenant heaven and earth pass away. And we believe this world-changing process was consummated at AD 70.

Gentry already believes the “new heaven and earth” mentioned in Rev. 21 arrived at AD 70. How can he distinguish between the passing of the old heaven and earth then and the one mentioned here in Matt. 5:17-19? See his discussion of Heb. 12 and Rev. 21 in his book, He Shall Have Dominion, (hereafter referred to as “HSHD”, p. 363-365). Does NT eschatology speak of two different sets of “old heavens and earths” and “new heavens and earths?” How many are there? We may be inconsistent with Gentry’s interpretation of Matt. 5:17-19, but we are not inconsistent with the proper historical-grammatical interpretation of this text. Gentry is inconsistent with his own interpretation of the other “heaven and earth” passages in the NT.

Others who think of themselves as “Reconstructionists,” and who were in on the foundation of the Reconstructionists movement almost from the very beginning (e.g. Jim Jordan and David Chilton) would agree that the “heaven and earth” mentioned in Matt. 5:17-19 have passed away. For example, here is what Jim Jordan said about Matt. 5:17-19 in his book, Through New Eyes (pp. 260-262, 311):

The word “fulfill” here does not mean simply “cause to stand,” but implies transformation into a newness of power. It means to bring something into its fullness, a fullness not previously seen. Thus, it is a good term to use to refer to the transformation of the old into the new. The New Covenant is not going to replace the Old with something different in kind, but only different in glory. ...As we have seen throughout this book, the passing away of the heaven and earth does not need to refer to the physical world. It often refers to a covenantal establishment. Here that is clearly what is in view. After the Cross, the Church certainly does not keep every jot and tittle of the Old Covenant law. Once Jesus had accomplished His work, the law was changed, for “when the priesthood is changed, of necessity there takes place a change of law also” (Heb. 7:12). The old heaven and earth passed away in the first century A.D.; and at that time, many of the jots and tittles also passed away, their purpose fulfilled at last. ...In my book, The Law of the Covenant (Tyler, TX: Institute for Christian Economics, 1984), I took a different view of these verses, arguing that the passing of the heaven and earth is the end of the physical world, and that Christians are still supposed to keep the “fundamental principles” of the jots and tittles. I find that this interpretation, though it has weighty advocates, simply will not stand up in the light of the work presented in the present book as a whole. Thus, I must differ with so fine a work as John Murray, Principles of Conduct (Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1957), pp. 149ff. Murray simply does not take sufficient account of the redemptive historical setting of this passage, though his ethical exhortations are surely invaluable all the same. Let me direct the reader to an older work, equally Reformed and profound, that sets out what I now take to be the correct view of the passage: John Brown, Discourses and Sayings of Our Lord Jesus Christ, 3 vols. (London: Banner of Truth Trust, [1852] 1967) 1:171-174.

Having said this, it is important to note that even though Jordan no longer claims to be a “theonomist,” he still seems to be very much involved in efforts to reconstruct America and the nations of the world around the principles contained in OT Law. Perhaps it is not consistent for him (or me) to do that, but nevertheless, I’m glad that we are all working toward reform and reconstruction of our nation around a solid biblical base. I’m glad to be a part of the efforts to reconstruct America and the world, and I would welcome the participation of all other true Christians, consistent or not. Apostle Paul said the Law is “holy and righteous and good” (Rom. 7:12) and is beneficial if used “lawfully.” (1 Tim. 1:8) And Paul said that “all Scripture” (not just the NT) is inspired and profitable for teaching, correction and training in righteousness. (2 Tim. 3:16f) Does the world need to be trained (reconstructed) in righteousness? Do we have the right (I dare say the obligation) to use all of inspired Scripture in that process of training the nations? What else would we use? Yes, I believe that full Preterists must be involved in reconstructing our society and the world around biblical principles of law, justice, economics, ecology, science, technology, morals and ethics. Our world is not about to end. There is an indefinitely long future ahead of us here on the Earth. The reconstruction idea is perfectly in harmony with the long-term view of the full Preterist. It is not the exclusive property of the postmil partial Preterists like Gentry. It is exactly what the Reformation was all about (reformed and always reforming). Every generation must continually be reforming and reconstructing the church and society around rightly interpreted and applied Biblical law. It may not be consistent with Gentry’s interpretation of Matt. 5:17-19 for full Preterists to do that, but it is perfectly consistent with covenant theology and the biblical teaching about the growth and spread of the kingdom.

It is the theonomists (postmil futurist Reconstructionists such as Bahnsen and Gentry) who are inconsistent with Matt. 5:17-19. Why aren’t they keeping every jot and tittle of the Law, if they believe it is still bound upon us, including the Sabbath, kosher laws, purifications, festivals, sacrifices and priesthood? Bahnsen and Gentry (in House Divided, pp. 107-108) suggested that “other texts” in the NT show that “the ceremonial provisions” have now been “set aside.” But, my question to them is not whether the ceremonial law has passed away, but when it passed away. This is the question Bahnsen tried to deal with in his Theonomy In Christian Ethics and in House Divided. This timing question is the crucial one for Gentry and Bahnsen’s thesis. Bahnsen went to Hebrews 8 to try to paint the ceremonial law as already invalid at the time Hebrews was written. Chilton shows the fallacy of Bahnsen’s reasoning here: [emphasis his]

I noticed what seems to me a major error in the typical theonomist argument. In Theonomy in Christian Ethics, Bahnsen cites Hebrews 8:13 four times (on pp. 194, 209, 213, and 227) – cites but does not quote! That is a crucial and fatal error, considering his chief referent is Matthew 5:17-18 – “Think not that I am come to destroy the law and the prophets: I am not come to abrogate, but to confirm. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.” Bahnsen says: “It is the very point of slightness that Jesus brings forcefully before us. Not even the very least extensive number of the very least significant aspect of the Older Testamental law will become invalid until heaven and earth pass away.... It is hard to imagine how Jesus could have more intensely affirmed that every bit of the law remains binding in the Gospel age” (pp. 73f). As Hamlet says, “Tis the sport to have the Engineer hoist with his own petard!” (Act 3, Scene 4, Lines 206-7) If what Bahnsen says is true, it means that the entire Christian Church has been violating God’s Law for almost 2000 years! It means that God still, to this very day, requires His people to obey even the slightest, most minute details of Biblical Law – including not only the dietary laws but the ceremonies and sacrifices as well (which actually is quite impossible since the Temple’s destruction in A.D. 70)! To repeat Bahnsen’s carefully-chosen words: “Not even the very least extensive number of the very least significant aspect of the Older Testamental law will become invalid until heaven and earth pass away” – meaning, in his terms, “at least as long as the physical universe lasts . . . this phrase was a graphic and strong way of saying ‘never.’” (p. 76). As I wrote in the September and October (1996) issues of Biblical Worldview, the “passing of heaven and earth” was coincident with the final annihilation of the Old Covenant in the destruction of the Temple. In fact, I can’t think of a single text that indicates the world will ever end (see e.g., Psalm 104:5; 119:90; Eccl. 1:4; Eph. 3:21). But back to my point about Hebrews 8:13: as I said, Bahnsen cites, doesn't quote -- because the very quote would refute his thesis! Hebrews 8:13 reads: "In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made (or declared: perfect active of pelaio) the first old. Now that which decayeth (palaioumenon: present passive participle) and waxeth old (geraskon: present active participle) is ready (eggus, near,) to vanish away (afanismou, disappearing)." The writer, shortly before the fall of Jerusalem, is describing the progressive ruin of the Old Covenant, and speaks of it in process of annihilation; but it wasn’t quite completely gone yet! The Old Covenant was going, but it was not (quite) gone! It was near disappearing, but hadn't quite completely disappeared yet! Make sure you focus on that point – writing about AD 63, the Hebrews writer says: “He hath made (or declared -- perfect tense) the first (Covenant) old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old (present tense!) is ready to vanish away.”

But look at what Bahnsen says on p. 194: "Hebrews 8:13 says that the old age is past, but the age of the Son is here to stay." But is that what it says? No! It says it's passing, not past! But since he doesn't quote it, we don't read it, and (since it is indeed past for us) we fail to see the sleight-of-hand trick involved. Bahnsen cleverly disguises the fact that the passing of the Old Covenant was a process, not one fell swoop!

On p. 209, he says: “The perfect has come, thus making the sacrificial, priestly, temple system irrelevant. (Heb. 8:13)” But is that what it says? No! It says it was becoming irrelevant -- not there yet!

On p. 213, he writes: "The observation of this system of ordinances (redemptive ceremonies) was intended to be superseded (Heb. 7:11-12, 18-19); it was a foreshadow of Christ's saving economy and has become obsolete with His historical work (Heb. 10:1; 8:13)." Almost true; not quite! It was becoming obsolete, as the text states, but it was not completely gone yet!

The final bit of faulty interpretation occurs on p. 227, where he cites the same text, but an actual quotation would reveal its incompatibility with his proposition: "The age of the law and the prophets is past; the age of the Son (and its fuller revelation) is here to stay (Heb. 8:13; 1:3)." But is that what it says? No! It says it was passing -- not completely past! We New-Covenant believers, nearly 2000 years later, don't pick up the subtle sleight-of-hand trick involved, because of course the age of the law and prophets is past for us; what's disguised by Bahnsen's argument is that it was (present tense) still in the process of passing for believers in the first-century era of transition before AD 70!

The fact is that the whole milieu of that age is so foreign to us that we fail to see the utter and complete shock the end of the Old Covenant meant, which is precisely why the Apostles had to keep reminding their readers of the change in the elements of covenantal life (Gal. 4:9-10; Col. 2:8, 16-23; Heb. 5:12; 2 Pet. 3:10-12). That is why, in his otherwise generally instructive primer Ethics & God's Law, William Einwechter "cheats": Quoting Matt. 5:17-19, he says: "Jesus here declares that His disciples are responsible to do and teach the ethical and moral principles contained in the law and the prophets" (p. 29). That is emphatically not what Jesus declared! Jesus demanded obedience to every last jot and tittle! And only when the Old Covenant was fully abolished and annihilated -- so that even the most dedicated Pharisee is now literally unable to keep it -- is Bahnsen's statement fully valid. What Bahnsen consistently fails to recognize is the transitional nature of the Last Days (NT) period. [Taken from two of David Chilton’s email messages to Ed Stevens shortly before Chilton’s death on March 7, 1997.]

Incidentally, this and several other fine specimens of closely reasoned statements from Chilton show that he was in full command of his theological and exegetical sensibilities up to the very end. He did not adopt full Preterism on a whimsical basis. He and this author had many lengthy and intense interactions in which he closely examined every aspect of the Preterist view. He was as skeptical as anyone. But ultimately creeds and tradition had to surrender to Scripture and reason.

Chilton’s exposŽ of the flaws in Bahnsen’s interpretation above reveals the problems in Gentry’s views as well. The passing of the Old Covenant brought the end of the ceremonial law, which was the end of the old heaven and earth and the beginning of the new heaven and earth (the kingdom). This change of covenant worlds was reflected in the “change of law” (Heb. 7:12). Christ had not already changed that law and covenant and world. It was in the process of disappearing and its end was imminent. Bahnsen and Gentry both fail to make that connection. So, full Preterists differ with theonomists on the timing of the end of the ceremonial law’s passing by forty years. We would expect that theonomists would also put the end of the “heaven and earth” somewhere in the first century, but they totally disconnect it from the end of the ceremonial law and suggest it is the end of the physical planet in the future. Full Preterists have exegeted Matt. 5:17-19 in harmony with Heb. 8:13, and shown how it was fulfilled at the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70. It is Gentry, Bahnsen and other Reconstructionists who are out of sync with Heb. 8:13.

In regard to this whole issue of Matt. 5:17-19 and the passing away of “heaven and earth,” it might be interesting for our readers to simply ask Gentry why neither one of his books (BJF and HSHD) deal with, nor even mention, Matthew 24:35. This passage talks about the passing away of “heaven and earth” in the context of the destruction of Jerusalem (with immanency time indicators adjacent). This is certainly a predictable omission on Gentry’s part, given his arbitrary interpretation of that phrase throughout the rest of the NT. In one place (Matt. 5:18) he says it refers to the future cataclysmic end of the physical world. In another (Rev. 21) he says it was fulfilled in AD 70. What is even more interesting is that in Rev. 21 (which he applies to the consummation of the marriage of Christ to His bride at AD 70), we see the arrival of the new heaven and earth accompanied by the passing away of the old heaven and earth. Again, this is something which Gentry says occurred at AD 70. Gentry elsewhere states that Revelation is Apostle John’s version of the Olivet Discourse. If Revelation is speaking about the same events as Matthew 24, and Rev. 21:1 is talking about the old heaven and earth passing away at AD 70, why isn’t Matt. 24:35 referring to the same passing away of heaven and earth in John’s version of the Olivet Discourse in Rev. 21-22? Why is Gentry so silent about Matt. 24:35? Does it threaten his consistency in applying Matt. 5:18 to a future end of planet earth? Is he hoping nobody notices? Check the Greek phraseology in all three texts for yourself (Matt. 5:18; Matt. 24:35; Rev. 21:1). The “passing away” in all three uses a form of ercomai (erchomai), and the terms “heaven and earth” are the same Greek words (ouranos “ouranos” and ge “ge”). There is more than just “similarity of language” here. It is identical language about the same subject.

What “world” is Gentry referring to in his phrase “world-wide victory?” Is this the same “world” mentioned in Colossians which he applies to the Roman world? In regard to the gospel exercising “world-wide victory,” we simply need to ask ourselves if the gates of Hades prevailed over the church. Jesus said He would build His church (the kingdom) and the dominion of Death and Hades would not prevent it. Is the church here? Did it survive the Jewish attempts to destroy it? Has it made any progress in the last two thousand years? What does that imply? The victory is ours, and our dominion is becoming more pervasive by the day! Christ predicted this ongoing spread of His kingdom after its humble beginnings. Full Preterists do not believe AD 70 ended the applicability of Scripture to the post-70 church. Quite the opposite. We probably see more relevancy and applicability than theonomists do. Jesus constantly taught about the nature of the kingdom and what life in it would be like, as did Paul and the rest of the NT writers. The NT is a manual for life in the kingdom. The pre-70 saints only had an “earnest” or “pledge” of the benefits that we now enjoy in the fully-arrived kingdom. Jesus promised His kingdom would prevail, and it has. Just because Jesus fulfilled the great once-for-all soteriological events in the first century does not mean there are no continuing benefits for us today. The same is true of the once-for-all eschatological fulfillments. Gentry misunderstands what full Preterists are saying about this.

Gentry seems to apply Rev. 21:1 to AD 70 (see BJF, p. 240n-241n), while at the same time believing the millennium is still in progress. This is not consistent. If we are still in the transitional millennial period, the Paraclete is still actively revealing new Scripture and giving out charismatic gifts in Christ’s absence. The Paraclete is to operate until Christ’s return (which Gentry believes will occur after the millennium which is still in progress). One of the main functions of the Paraclete was to reveal new information about the plan of redemption. (cf. John 14-16) If Christ has not returned, the Paraclete must still be at His work of revealing new things about the yet unfinished plan of redemption and consummation of all things. This implies that the gift of inspiration along with all the other miraculous charismata are still around, and that the canon is not closed, and soteriological redemption is not complete. Gentry and all other postmil partial Preterists have a real inconsistency at this point, as I clearly explained in my written debate with Joseph Balyeat a few years ago in the pages of Kingdom Counsel. I would agree with Gentry that “there is no remaining word of prophecy” for us today that has not already been consummated in Christ and His Church. But, just because the last things have been fulfilled does not mean there are no benefits or applications for us today. A lot of once-for-all events in the first century have lasting benefits and applications for us today. The cross and the resurrection of Christ are just two examples. It is the theonomist who has the problem of consistency here on two counts. First, he is not keeping every jot and tittle of the Law, and secondly, he does not believe the charismata are still around. This is where the full Preterist view shines absolutely consistent.

It makes more sense for a full Preterist (who believes the earth will be here for an indefinitely long time to come) to be concerned about reconstruction and reform, than it does for a partial Preterist postmil futurist who believes that Satan is yet to be released at the end of the present millennium for some very pessimistic and de-constructive work, and that this present physical planet will be removed or changed. Postmils admit that they do not know how long it will be before the release of Satan or what the implications of that will be. Will it mean the resumption of demon-possession, and the reoccurrence of the charismata to counteract Satan’s influence? Some charismatics and Premillennialists are claiming that very thing for today. The partial Preterist postmil theonomist has no consistent way to counter their arguments. And if the end of planet earth is just about upon us, how can postmils really claim to be consistently optimistic? Some very pessimistic events are still ahead of us, even by their own interpretation of Rev. 20-22. The argument, “Why polish brass on a sinking ship?” would certainly apply to the partial Preterist postmil position in that case. As Michael Grasso aptly remarked, “Gentry is also on a sinking ship just like the Premillennialists. Even though his ship has less holes and will be around a lot longer, it still sinks eventually.” Only the full Preterist can consistently avoid that exegetical and theological dilemma.

[GENTRY] Furthermore, there are numerous exegetical and theological problems I have with the hyper-Preterist viewpoint. I deem my historic, orthodox Preterism to be exegetical Preterism (because I find specific passages calling for specific Preterist events); I deem Max King and Ed Stevens’ views to be theological Preterism or comprehensive Preterism (they apply exegetical conclusions drawn from several eschatological passages to all eschatological passages, because of their theological paradigm).

I like what David Green said in response to Gentry’s point here: “He implies that he doesn’t interpret eschatology through the grid of a paradigm! Does he really think that he interprets with the objectivity of a robot, and without regard to long-held party dogmas? ....Also, if his view is exegetical in contrast to ours which is theological, why didn’t he use exegetical means to refute the full Preterist view?”

Gentry says he has “numerous exegetical and theological problems” with the full Preterist view. He claims his eschatological interpretations are the “historic, orthodox” ones. I wonder how many of the good Reformed brothers who were at the Covenant Eschatology Symposium in 1993 would agree with that? Can Gentry document his own flavor of partial Preterism and postmillennialism from the late first to fourth century writings to show that it was, in fact, the one and only universal “historic, orthodox” view of eschatology in the church? If he can, he has probably done the full Preterist view more favors than he realizes. If it can be shown that the early church had a clear understanding of Gentry’s view of the fulfillment of Revelation in connection with the destruction of Jerusalem, it will open the way for an even more comprehensive view of Preterist interpretation.

Speaking of “comprehensive” Preterism, it is interesting to note that there are a number of Reformed writers dating back to the days of the Westminster Assembly (e.g. John Lightfoot) and afterwards (e.g. John Brown, John Owen, et al) who interpreted many of the NT eschatological passages as being fulfilled in AD 70. Very few (if any) of them took a full Preterist view, but each of them took a different set of passages as being fulfilled at AD 70. If we put all the passages together (that at least one of them interpreted as having fulfillment in AD 70) into a comprehensive system, what would we have? It would basically give us the full Preterist view! And that is essentially what we full Preterists are doing. Instead of inconsistently taking a passage here and there and capriciously applying one to AD 70 and another to the yet future, we are simply putting them together into a consistent system of eschatological fulfillment. If the individual texts can legitimately be interpreted separately as AD 70 in fulfillment, why isn’t it reasonable to string them all together into a coherent full Preterist system? That would indeed be a “comprehensive” and “consistent” Preterism. Aren’t the Reconstructionists trying to do something similar when they take quotes from well-known Reformers and string them together to produce the theonomic system? Are they the only ones who have a right to do that without charges of non-conformity or heterodoxy? Isn’t Scripture supposed to be interpreted “consistently” and “systematically” and “harmoniously?” Gentry is inconsistent for failing to do that. His partial Preterist system is disjointed and full of loop-holes and inconsistencies. We will point more of them out as we go through this response.

 

Creedal Failure

[GENTRY] First, hyper-Preterism is heterodox. It is outside of the creedal orthodoxy of Christianity. No creed allows any Second Advent in A.D. 70. No creed allows any other type of resurrection than a bodily one. Historic creeds speak of the universal, personal judgment of all men, not of a representative judgment in A.D. 70.

First – Since when did the label “heterodox” (different doctrine) get re-defined in terms of conformity with the creeds? The Reformers were very careful to define “orthodoxy,” “heterodoxy,” and “heresy” in terms of conformity or non-conformity with Scripture. Who says anyone’s orthodoxy must be judged by conformity with uninspired documents that came into existence many years and even centuries after inspiration ceased? Gentry has put himself in close proximity to the Romanist position (the pope above or on a par with Scripture) by allowing the creeds to be the standard by which we judge orthodoxy (“straight doctrine”). That is putting uninspired human interpretations into a position above or on a par with Scripture. It is the same thing as Romanism, except the Romanists put a man (the pope) in that position instead of the creeds. The Reformers would not have tolerated such a compromise of the sola Scriptura and tota scriptura principles. Gentry’s appeal here is to the creeds. True Reformers should cry “foul” at this point. Something can be in-line with human creeds and still not be “ortho” with Scripture (and vice versa). Now, I’m not suggesting the creeds and historic traditions of the church don’t have a valid utility in helping us understand the truth of Scripture. But their interpretations should never be set up as an ultimate standard of authority for judging what is orthodox with Scripture. Only Scripture has that kind of absolute authority. Our “doctrines” (doxy) must be “straight” (ortho) in line with Scripture, but not necessarily with the interpretations in the creeds. So, Gentry is out of bounds using the creeds as the basis for his decision about whether something is orthodox. Scripture alone is to be used for that purpose.

I am surprised at Gentry’s hesitancy to believe the historic church could have missed a few things. The Reformers (and theonomists) had no difficulty rationalizing their formulation (or re-formulation) of new doctrines and creedal statements which the early church would not necessarily have understood, believed or agreed with. David Green shared this material from Gary North’s book, Dominion and Common Grace, to illustrate what I’m saying here:

On the linear, progressive character of church history, Gary North had this to say in his book, Dominion and Common Grace:

There has also been progress. We see this especially in the progress of the Christian creeds. Look at the Apostles’ Creed. Then look at the Westminster Confession of Faith. Only a fool or a heretic would deny theological progress. ...The creeds have been steadily improved. [Gary North, Dominion and Common Grace, Chapter 4, Van Til's Version of Common Grace, Differentiation and Progress, pg. 101.]

Van Til ...was unwilling to challenge the older Reformed creeds on this point (natural law as a “common ground” link between covenant-keepers and covenant-breakers), ...His ideas have made creedal revision mandatory, but he was unwilling to call publicly for a revision of the creeds leading to more biblically precise definitions of such seventeenth-century concepts as “general equity” “moral law,” and “the covenant of works.” (Gary North, Dominion and Common Grace, Chapter 5, Eschatology and Biblical Law, Postmillennialism and Common Grace, Van Til's Dilemma, pg. 115)

The church’s creeds improve over time. This, in turn, gives Christians cultural power. Is it any wonder that the Westminster Confession of Faith was drawn up at the high point of the Puritans’ control of England. ...It was the Reformation that made possible modern science and technology. (Gary North, Dominion and Common Grace, Chapter 7, Epistemological Self-Consciousness and Cooperation, pg. 182)

To sum up: North says that if there is really ethical/epistemological/cultural progress in history because of Christ's favor and gifts in behalf of His Church, then there must necessarily be “improvements” and “revisions” in the creeds, even in the ecumenical creeds! To deny this one must be a “fool or a heretic.”

Of course, North is not advocating changing any of the Biblical content of the creeds or confessions, but rather merely the interpretations and applications that have been added to the Biblical material, the same way full Preterists are. Are the Reformers and Reconstructionists the only ones who have the right to formulate new creeds, catechisms and confessional statements? And if the earlier creeds, confessions and catechisms were such infallible bastions of orthodoxy, why did the Reformers in various European countries compose new ones or make changes to them? Why did American churches go further to revise them again? Reconstructionists have added more on top of that. Full Preterists are Reformers, and as such it should be obvious that we believe the early church and the creeds can be (and have been found to be) mistaken. Isn’t that what the word “reform” implies? Even Gentry’s own little tract entitled, The Usefulness of Creeds, notes that the creeds contain more than just biblical content. He admits they contain “interpretations and applications” of Scripture. I am certainly not suggesting that the Biblical content of the creeds is mistaken. That would be charging Scripture with error. But, I am saying that our “interpretations and applications” of Scripture can be and often are mistaken. And when centuries of further Bible study reveals that there are some problems in our “interpretations and applications” of Scripture, we owe it to ourselves and posterity to correct those errors and reform our creeds to reflect this better way of interpreting and applying the Bible, and to do so as quickly as possible, lest an erroneous creed be appealed to as an ancient boundary which must not be moved.

The idea that the harlot of Revelation is the Roman Catholic Church and that the Beast is the Pope, has been a very dear belief (credo) of many Reformers for the last four hundred years, and was even included in both the Belgic (Art. 36) and the Westminster (Ch. 25, Par. 6) confessions, the latter of which Gentry’s denomination supposedly holds to rigidly. People died for that interpretation. Gentry is obviously not in “strict subscription” to the WCF, since his commentary on Revelation teaches the Beast was Nero. Why didn’t Gentry stick with it? Who gave him the freedom to reform it? This is an eschatological “interpretation and application” of Scripture. Is he the only one who has the right to interpret and apply Scripture in a different way than past generations? He has come up with a different interpretation of the time and nature of fulfillment of these endtime events. If he has the right to correct errors in previous generations’ eschatological concepts, why don’t we? He has not questioned the biblical content of the creeds (the actual events themselves), and neither have we. He still believes Scripture predicted the return of Christ and the other eschatological events, but he reinterprets the time and nature of the fulfillment of those events. He has added his own “interpretation and application” of the time and nature of fulfillment. If he has the right to do that, so does everyone else.

To be “outside creedal orthodoxy” is not the same as being outside biblical orthodoxy. One can be biblically orthodox without being creedally orthodox if the creeds have any biblically un-orthodox “interpretations and applications” in them. That is exactly the case here. Gentry and I both subscribe to the same list of biblical events and doctrines in the creeds. The difference is the time and nature of fulfillment “interpretations” that have been applied to those doctrines. Gentry seems to think full Preterists are tampering with the biblical material in the creeds, when in fact we are only correcting the erroneous interpretations that have crept into them. There is a big difference.

Gentry says, “No creed allows...”. This is an important issue, but the crucial question must always be whether Scripture allows for different interpretations and applications of the eschatological texts. On the basis of Gentry’s assertions here, it could be argued that the creeds don’t allow any kind of coming of Jesus at AD 70. This presents a problem for Gentry, since he does believe there was some kind of coming of Christ at AD 70. Do the creeds allow him that freedom? One of the fundamental presuppositions of the Reformation was that very allowance of different interpretations and applications of the biblical content in the creeds. What Gentry has done here is to say that there is no other possible way to interpret the time and nature of fulfillment of the biblical eschatological events than a physical, visible, “personal,” “bodily” one (and still be orthodox with Scripture). This sounds like the Premillennial dispensationalists who are so certain that the kingdom of Heaven is not here yet, simply because they haven’t seen it with their eyes. Gentry differs with their view in regard to the time and nature of fulfillment, yet believes in the same list of eschatological events as they do. Are he and they the only ones who have the freedom to interpret and apply Scripture differently? Full Preterists are not inventing a new list of eschatological events to substitute for the list in the creeds. We have the same list of biblical events (the same biblical content in the creeds). We just differ on the time and nature of their fulfillment, just as the Premillennial dispensationalists do. If there is no freedom for the full Preterist “interpretations and applications,” there is no freedom for Gentry’s or anyone else’s, no matter how slightly or radically different they are from the creeds.

It is one thing to say that the creedal writers did not come up with the same interpretation of those events as we have, but quite another to say that their interpretation is the only correct one. Again, we are not questioning the biblical content of the creeds, but merely the time and nature “interpretations and applications” of that content. Gentry seems to ascribe virtual infallibility (inspiration) to the creeds. This should make any true Reformer shudder. The Westminster Confession did not go that far. It recognized that it could have missed some things and allowed for revision and correction. Just compare the breadth and depth of scholarship sitting on the Westminster Assembly to the men involved in the various ecumenical councils. If a document so late as the WCF has errors in it, why can’t we believe earlier documents which do not stand on as much interpretative efforts or depth of scholarship can also be mistaken in some of their interpretations and applications?

Ken Davies reminded me that “the subject of eschatology was never debated by any of the ecumenical councils.” As Jim Jordan has well said (Biblical Chronology, “Problems With New Testament History,” Vol. 5, No. 1, Jan. 1993, p. 1):

Finally, though the Church Fathers are “fathers” in a sense, and are of real value to us, they are also the “Church Babies” in another sense. All this should be born in mind when it comes to their haphazard testimony... [emphasis added]

How much confidence and authority can we place upon the church “fathers” and their creeds in those doctrinal areas (like eschatology) that they really spent little time with? What is the danger of putting the creeds into an authoritative position? Isn’t it doing the same thing as the Pharisees were doing (“invalidating the Word of God for the sake of their traditions”)? David Chilton read J. S. Russell’s book (The Parousia) while he was at Tyler back in the mid-80’s, but he told me that his allegiance to the creeds at that time prevented him from accepting Russell’s full Preterist position. But in the last two years of his life he began to see that the creeds could be mistaken, and that Scripture alone is qualified to be our authority and guide in matters of true Biblical orthodoxy. He closely examined Eastern Orthodoxy, but backed away when he began to see where it leads (away from the absolute authority of Scripture and away from the need to reform). Creedalism moves one toward either Roman Catholicism or Eastern Orthodoxy, and several within the Reformed camp have already gone down that path (e.g. Franky Schaeffer, Jerry Mattiticks, Scott Hahn, and others). This is exactly the danger of Gentry’s position. If his creedal stance is followed consistently to its logical end, it would force him out of Reformed theology into either Romanism or Orthodoxy. Several others (e.g. Andrew Sandlin, Jim West, John Campbell, et al) have similarly expressed their allegiance to the creeds. They shouldn’t be surprised later when some of their disciples apply their creedal ideas consistently and leave the Reformed (and always reforming) faith.

The real question that must be addressed is whether the Bible (not the creeds) allows “any second advent in AD 70,” and “any other type of resurrection than a bodily one.” Just because the creeds may not allow it, does not mean the Bible does not allow it. Disagreement with the creeds only points to a possible problem. The determination of whether it is a fatal problem must be made on the basis of Scripture alone (sola Scriptura and tota scriptura). It seems that Gentry does not even want to consider that possibility. He is content with the creedal interpretations. He seems to assume that no other interpretation of the nature of fulfillment is Biblically possible or defensible. This response certainly aims to challenge his assumptions and presuppositions in that regard.

[GENTRY] It would be most remarkable if the entire church that came through A.D. 70 missed the proper understanding of the eschaton and did not realize its members had been resurrected! And that the next generations had no inkling of the great transformation that took place! Has the entire Christian church missed the basic contours of Christian eschatology for its first 1900 years?

It is evident that most within early Christianity missed the full significance of AD 70. The question is, why? The early church was so intimately involved in the events, they couldn’t see the big picture like an outsider or historian can. Like a person down in the middle of a forest, they can’t see the whole forest because the trees right around them block their field of vision. The early church failed to recognize just how pivotal the events of the first generation of Christianity were. They just didn’t sense the bigger picture. We are in a similar situation today. Historians will love to write profound things about how pivotal the Twentieth Century has been. In one century we have gone from horse and buggy to space shuttles, lunar landings and planetary probes; and from signal fires, smoke signals, and pony express to telephone, satellite communications, computers and email. The magnitude and pace of change in this century is nothing short of staggering. But we who have lived through it quite often fail to realize just how truly revolutionary it really has been. The same thing happened in the first century. They just didn’t grasp the significance and implications of the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70.

It is indeed “most remarkable” that mainline Christianity has overlooked the full implications of AD 70, but that doesn’t mean the eschatological fulfillment didn’t occur just because the Jews or the Christians didn’t recognize it. Many of the fulfillments Gentry claims in his commentary on Revelation cannot be documented using Scripture. He has to rely on eye-witnesses and contemporary historians to support his first century interpretation. He has come up with some applications of the book of Revelation that I have not seen in any other Christian writings heretofore. Should we throw those out merely because they are innovations? Or do we check them against Scripture and history to see if they make reasonable sense? The principles Gentry is using here against the full Preterist view could be applied to his own “untraditional” opinions about the date of Revelation and its first century fulfillment. In fact, some of the Reformed theologians present at the 1993 Covenant Eschatology Symposium suggested that very thing. Some of them questioned Gentry’s interpretations and applications quite closely. Gentry is trying to paint himself as being radically different from full Preterists, yet totally in harmony with creedal and confessional interpretations. He is not as far from the full Preterist view as he tries to make others believe, and he has his own set of differences to justify, and must do so using the same kind of approach full Preterists are using.

If we granted Gentry’s presuppositions about the nature of the “second advent,” “bodily resurrection,” and “personal judgment,” we might arrive at the same conclusions he has. However, what if his presuppositions about the time and nature of fulfillment are not orthodox with Scripture? What if it can be shown that the historic church failed to comprehend the correct time and nature of fulfillment of biblical eschatology? This may be surprising, and probably unsettling for many of us, but it is much less disastrous to our faith than the alternatives suggested by Albert Schweitzer, Rudolph Bultmann and Bertrand Russell. We have to do something with the immanency of the NT. If we don’t take a full Preterist approach, we leave the integrity of Jesus and the NT writers utterly defenseless. Certainly, it impugns the interpretative accuracy of the historic church in matters of eschatology, but as R. C. Sproul observed, “...people have attacked the credibility of Jesus. Maybe some Church Fathers made a mistake. Maybe our favorite theologians have made mistakes. I can abide with that. I can’t abide with Jesus being a false prophet.” [We need to state it clearly for the record that R. C. Sproul, Sr. is not a full Preterist, but he does see a lot of merit in the partial Preterist approach similar to Ken Gentry.] When the mid-second century church confronted the seeming non-fulfillment of the supposedly imminent eschatological events, they decided to re-interpret the time statements instead of re-examine their presuppositions about the nature of fulfillment. Justin Martyr, Shepherd of Hermas and Clement of Rome all postulated the idea of an indefinite postponement. They tampered with the time of fulfillment, rather than change their presuppositions about the nature of fulfillment. To this date, the historic church has never fully recovered from that early and fundamental error. They could just as easily have questioned their presuppositions about the nature of fulfillment, and if they had, we might not be having this debate today.

So, in response to Gentry’s question about whether most of the historic “Christian church missed the basic contours of Christian eschatology for its first 1900 years,” I would have to answer this way: The historic church understood that its soteriology was fully consummated by the advent of Christ and His establishment of the Church. What it did not realize is that eschatology was nothing more than the final consummating events of its soteriology. They disconnected eschatology from soteriology (because of their presuppositions about the physical nature of fulfillment), and thus failed to see the eschatological fulfillments. They saw the spiritual fulfillment of soteriology, but continued looking for a physical, visible and materialistic fulfillment of eschatology – the same way the Jews missed the soteriological fulfillments. The early church knew that the true Israel was no longer defined racially and nationalistically, and was now universal in scope, but many of them (esp. the Ebionites, Montanists, and other chiliasts) kept on thinking this “new” universal Israel had a materialistic paradise in its imminent future. They never seemed willing to question their presuppositions about the nature of fulfillment of eschatology. The early church fathers who were apologists against the Jews are the best source for illustrations of this problem. (See especially Athanasius’ On The Incarnation and his Festal Letters). Athanasius posited complete fulfillment of all soteriological events in conjunction with the (singular) advent/Parousia of Christ and the establishment of the church in the generation leading up to the destruction of Jerusalem. He spoke of the victory over death (which is an eschatological event) in soteriological terms, failing to see the inconsistency of disconnecting it from its eschatological implications. How can the final soteriological enemy (Death) be conquered if the other final events of eschatology (i.e. the Parousia, resurrection, judgment, etc.) have not also been consummated? This is the very inconsistency these beloved brethren never quite grasped. Even today, Bible interpreters have difficulty seeing this inconsistency. The confusion is even more apparent when one studies the various positions different branches of the church have taken in regard to where people go at death and what their state is there until the resurrection and judgment. Yet through all this, the historic church has allowed diversity of opinion on the “interpretations and applications” of the time and nature of fulfillment of the Biblical eschatological events. So, why is Gentry now trying to anathematize us for exercising that freedom?

For more information about the eschatological beliefs of the early church and how full Preterists handle creedal issues, the reader is encouraged to obtain and read the articles by Edward E. Stevens entitled, “The Early Church and The Creeds” and “What If The Creeds Are Wrong?” They are available as a set from Kingdom Publications for a donation of $5 including postage. These articles deal with the rest of Gentry’s objections based on the creeds and the historic church, and show when the mistakes were made, who made them and why. It should not surprise us that the early church missed some things. I am at a loss to explain how Montanism, chiliasm, sacerdotalism, the doctrine of purgatory, indulgences, Maryolatry, baptismal regeneration, Arianism, Pelagianism, and a host of other departures from biblical orthodoxy could ever develop in the church. How do we explain the Ebionites failing to recognize the “change of law” that occurred, or the rejection of the deity of Christ by some of the Nazarene (Jewish) sects and the Arians? How could the Montanists have so much success in their teaching that Montanus was the inspired mouthpiece of the Paraclete and that the charismata were still around? There didn’t seem to be very many who recognized any kind of “coming in judgment” at AD 70 (like Gentry and many other amils and postmils do). How does any error get into the church and stay around for so long? How could the church miss it on so many things? Why haven’t the Roman and Greek churches abandoned all their errors in view of the great reforms clearly delineated by the Protestant Reformers? In view of this, it seems obvious that the vast majority of Christians overlooked the fulfillment of eschatology at AD 70. The church has always had difficulty defining and maintaining orthodoxy. But, there are bright spots in the patristic writings which do show that some Christians in the early centuries understood eschatology as having been accomplished in at least a soteriological sense. But even if none of them had, it would not disqualify a better understanding of biblical truth if one comes along. Our faith rests on inspired biblical truth, not on uninspired interpretations and applications in the creeds.


Biblical Perspicuity


[GENTRY] Second, hyper-Preterism has serious implications for the perspicuity of Scripture. This viewpoint not only has implications for the later creeds, but for the instructional abilities of the apostles: no one in church history knew the major issues of which they spoke - until very recently! Are the Scriptures that impenetrable on an issue of that significance?

Second. I can’t believe I’m reading these words from the pen of a Reconstructionists who claims to be a Preterist. Gentry has taken some very Preterist positions on many of the eschatological passages in his writings against the dispensationalists, and in his presentations at the 1993 Covenant Eschatology Symposium. After reading and listening to his many eloquent and thorough defenses of Preterism, it seems strange to read what he says here. His statements under point number two seem to unravel the great Preterist statements he has made elsewhere. Why is he laboring so hard to leave the impression that there is a huge difference between his partial Preterist position and the full Preterist view? He’s only discrediting his own fine defenses of the Preterist view elsewhere.

The perspicuity (clarity) of Scripture and the instructional abilities of the apostles are not jeopardized by the full Preterist view, any more than they are threatened by Gentry’s partial Preterist view. Gentry asks, “Are the Scriptures that impenetrable on an issue of that significance?” The same argument could be levied against his early date for Revelation and his near full Preterist interpretation of the Apocalypse. In fact, I think arguments like that were raised against Gentry in Orlando by some of the other non-Preterist theologians there. If Scripture is so clear, why aren’t children seminary professors? Why do we even need seminaries at all? And why don’t all seminary professors and theologians agree on eschatology if it is so clear? If the early church had such a perfect understanding of it, why haven’t more Christians down through the ages taken Gentry’s position regarding the book of Revelation? Why does he need to write a whole book in defense of the early date of Revelation, and another whole book defending his postmil view, if Scripture is so clear about eschatology and the church understood it so perfectly from the beginning? Gentry needs to answer his own question. It applies to him just as much as it does to any other Preterist. It should be obvious to all that eschatology is one of those Biblical subjects which Apostle Peter said is “hard to understand” (2 Pet. 3:16).

I do not know any full Preterists who affirm that the early church understood everything perfectly, but we certainly would agree that the church received a perfect revelation. There was really no excuse for them not to understand it. But, as many experts in patristic studies can attest, the early church did not understand the TIME and NATURE of fulfillment of eschatology very well. They kept on repeating the immanency ideas until the middle of the second century until it finally was no longer possible to conceive of themselves as a part of “this generation.” Whether you are a Preterist or a futurist, this continuation of the immanency idea is embarrassing and destructive to the church’s integrity as interpreters. For the Preterist it is only somewhat puzzling, but for the futurist it is fatal. If Jesus and the apostles taught immanency (as in fact they did), then a non-fulfillment destroys the inspiration and integrity of Christ and the apostles. However, if it was fulfilled and the church only failed to understand it, then we can charge the mistake to non-inspired churchmen and leave the integrity of Christ and the apostles intact. As R. C. Sproul and others have well noted, this is where the lines for the looming war over the integrity of the Bible are being drawn. And it is the real dilemma the futurist faces. The full Preterist view has already solved it, and it is the only view which can solve it consistently and still preserve Biblical integrity.

Joseph M. Canfield (in his separate response to Gentry) has pointed out a similar threat to the integrity of Jesus and the Apostles coming from an Islamic author, Jabril Muhammed (“The Final Call” Sept. 8, 1996, “Is The Pope The True Representative of Jesus” p. 27):

More dangerous is the statement of Jabril Muhammed, a current Mohammedan writer who says that the plain words of Jesus called for a First Century return. He follows most unbelieving interpreters in holding that since no Return occurred, then Jesus was mistaken. But he takes this a step farther and says that Jesus’ alleged mistake proves that Mohammed is greater than Jesus. As we are faced with an upsurge of Islam, the statement is conveniently ignored by Futurists. How would Gentry answer Jabril Muhammed?

The ignorance of the early church is certainly surprising, but not unexplainable or overwhelming. What will unravel Christian Faith is to see the immanency being unequivocally taught by Christ and the apostles, but then believe (like Albert Schweitzer and Bertrand Russell) that they were mistaken. That is exactly what all futurist and partial Preterist views are ultimately forced to conclude. Which would you rather believe – that Jesus and the apostles were mistaken, or that the early church misunderstood and misinterpreted the TIME and NATURE of fulfillment? Why are we so quick to defend the integrity of the creeds, while leaving the inspiration of Christ and the apostles defenseless? This is “invalidating the Word of God for the sake of our tradition” (Mk. 7:13), just like the Pharisees were doing with their rabbinical traditions. I do not apologize for saying that the early (post-70) apostolic fathers misunderstood biblical eschatology, especially when the only alternative is to strip Christ and the apostles of their inspiration and integrity. One of the two groups was in serious error. There is no way to preserve the integrity of both groups. Liberal, skeptical and anti-Christian scholars have left no alternative for the conservative Christian. A mistake has to be charged to either Jesus and the inspired NT writers, or to the uninspired church fathers who interpreted them. Full Preterists have made the only choice that consistently preserves the integrity of our faith. Gentry seems to be taking the other alternative by paying homage to the creeds.

See the Tenth section of this response where we show Gentry’s inconsistency in splitting the immanency and coming statements in Matthew 24. His weakness and vulnerability to the liberal attack is more obvious there.

All branches of Christendom (except maybe those who worship the creeds) recognize that our understanding of Scripture is getting progressively better. We did not start out with a perfect understanding. We instead started out with a perfect revelation, but a very imperfect understanding of it. One implication of a progressive understanding is that older concepts will be found slightly or largely in error, requiring adjustment or replacement by the better understanding. Note what Iain Murray (1977) said about John Murray in the Preface to Vol. 2 of the Collected Writings of John Murray:

“...this is not to say that [John Murray] thought Reformed theology had reached definitive conclusions on all biblical subjects. On the contrary, he judged it to be the constant business of the Church to seek a larger knowledge of Scripture for, as he writes in a characteristic sentence, ‘We are but touching the fringes of the mystery of God’s will...” [emphasis added]

Those who tend to hold the creeds as authoritative and inspired will be the first to raise the red flag when their long-held traditional “interpretations and applications” are questioned. Philip Schaff, who composed the three-volume work, The Creeds of Christendom, had these relevant comments about that behavior (Vol. I, p. 7):

In the Protestant system, the authority of symbols, as of all human compositions, is relative and limited. It is not co-ordinate with, but always subordinate to, the Bible, as the only infallible rule of the Christian faith and practice. The value of creeds depends upon the measure of their agreement with the Scriptures. In the best case a human creed is only an approximate and relatively correct exposition of revealed truth, and may be improved by the progressive knowledge of the Church, while the Bible remains perfect and infallible. ...Any higher view of the authority of symbols is unprotestant and essentially Romanizing. Symbololatry is a species of idolatry, and substitutes the tyranny of a printed book for that of a living pope. [emphasis added]

Note the words of Schaff in the quote above: “In the best case a human creed is only an approximate and relatively correct exposition of revealed truth, and may be improved by the progressive knowledge of the Church.” I suspect Philip Schaff is a little more qualified in the area of patristics than Gentry (and some other creedalists I know who will be reading this), and consequently in a better position to know what the limitations of the creeds are and how to improve them. However, creedalists will still be horrified at Schaff’s suggestion that the creeds are only “relatively correct” and may require improvements after the church has made progress in its understanding. I suspect they will also take offense at his suggestion that, “Any higher view of the authority of symbols is unprotestant and essentially Romanizing.” And, lest any creedalist think Schaff fails to understand the true nature of “Romanizing,” he explains how creed-olatry and pope-olatry are similar: “Symbololatry is a species of idolatry, and substitutes the tyranny of a printed book for that of a living pope.” They are both idolatry. I believe Schaff has clearly reflected the true spirit of the Reformation’s sola Scriptura battle cry. Gentry seems to be speaking otherwise.

At least three times in the first chapter of volume one (of Schaff’s three-volume work on the Creeds), he mentions the idea of growth and development in our understanding of the Christian faith, and constantly warns about the dangers of esteeming creeds above the Word of God. As I stated in my debate with Joseph Balyeat in Kingdom Counsel, if someone is really satisfied with judging the merits of the full Preterist position by Scripture alone, he won’t need to use the creeds against it. He will only bring the creeds into the picture if he presumes that the creeds are flawless (inspired) and therefore authoritative. If there was the slightest doubt about the correctness of the creeds, he would not use them as a standard.

There is an infinite difference between the creeds and Scripture. Scripture is inspired, and therefore infallible. Creeds are not inspired, so they can be mistaken, and always have to be held in some measure of suspicion. If I didn’t attach significant value to the creeds, I would have given Gentry’s whole objection here the quick brush off. But, they are more valuable than most other historical documents of uninspired human origin because they give us a window to view what the understanding of the church was at the time of their composition, and because they were formulated by so many brilliant minds over the course of several centuries of debate and discussion. But their main value is in the areas of theology that they were working on at the time (mainly Christology). They did little (if any) work on the eschatological statements in the creeds. And we must never forget that some of those same people formulated other doctrines and practices that have since been found to be in error, and went to extremes in dealing out cruel punishments upon those who disagreed with them. They condemned and killed men and women whom we now know to have been saints. This should be cause for pause before we enshrine these men’s opinions on a level with or above Scripture.

Some creedalists with whom I exchanged email stated that this whole issue of creedal orthodoxy is a matter of authority. I agree with them. I would go even further to assert that ultimate authority is bound up with inspiration and infallibility. Nothing can be ultimately authoritative unless it is infallible and inspired. The Roman Church knows this and that’s why they had to develop the doctrine of the infallibility (inspiration) of the Pope. The creedalists are doing the same thing with the councils and creeds. They have to vest infallibility and inspiration into the creeds in order to use them as an ultimate authority. Authority and inspiration go together. If the men who composed the councils were not inspired in the same way Scripture writers were, then their products (the creeds) have no more authority than any other writings of uninspired men. More value? Yes! More authority? No!

It is Gentry and other creedalists who are running counter to the principle of continual reform by locking us up with their creeds. It is time for another wave of Reformation to break out of that prison cell. And the Preterist interpretation of eschatology has just provided the key to unlock the door of continuing reform. If Gentry and other theonomists really want to be on the cutting edge of the continuing Reformation, here is their chance. The partial Preterist view just won’t cut it when the skeptic critics of the Bible fire their laser cannons at the integrity of the imminent coming passages. Only the full Preterist view can provide the consistent basis upon which to build a conservative and thoroughly Reformed systematic eschatology. Opportunities like this don’t come around every century, perhaps not even every millennium. Don’t miss it. Don’t trade your “reformed and always reforming” birthright for a mess of creedolatry pottage.

Every generation of Christians must be perceptive and vigilant. We can never assume that any uninspired document or system of theology is perfect. The possibility always exists that further study will reveal a flaw. When a builder discovers a flaw in his construction, what should he do? Cover it over, pretend like it isn’t there, and hope no one gets hurt when the building collapses later! Or, stick our heads in the sand and hope the critics go away! Killing the messenger won’t make the bad news go away! The battle is already being fought. Albert Schweitzer and others of his liberal critical armada have already fired their cannons. Traditional futurist eschatology is not only failing to fight back, but is manufacturing more ammunition for the opposition to use against the integrity of Scripture. They insist the immanency passages can mean anything we want them to mean, except “immanency”). The liberals just smile and load it in their cannon and fire another round. A partial Preterist position does not solve the problem. The dilemma remains. How long will Gentry and other partial Preterists hesitate between two opinions on this (1 Kings 18:21)? Whose side are they really on? Quit helping the faithless critics!

Surely Gentry has an uneasy feeling about using creedal arguments against the full Preterist view, since he has elsewhere come down solidly in favor of sola Scriptura. In his book, HSHD (top of p. 494), he said the following to counter the Premillennialists arguments against his partial Preterist views: “For the devout Christian, the ultimate issue determining the validity of a particular eschatological system is none other than the Word of the Living God.” All of us can say “Amen” to that. But, does Gentry really mean it? If so, why does he use the creeds and patristic testimony as his first line of argumentation here? From reading his statements against the Premillennialists, we would have expected him to focus on the biblical arguments first, fully and finally. Why the inconsistency?

In regard to the instructional abilities of the apostles, I have always wondered exactly what Peter meant in 2 Pet. 3:16 when he said that some of Paul’s eschatological teaching was “hard to understand.” The Jews missed both the soteriological and eschatological meaning of the OT Scriptures. They are still looking for a physical-literal fulfillment, even though Christ repeatedly said His kingdom was not of this world (John. 18:36) and was to come in that generation “without observation” (Luke. 17:20-21). In the gospel accounts where Jesus was explaining the meaning of the parables to the twelve, did you ever notice that the apostles were very often “dull of hearing”? The twelve still didn’t really believe Christ would rise from the dead. When Jesus was crucified, they thought it was all over. If it was difficult for someone who had been personally taught by Christ to understand, why should we be surprised that the average Christian missed it? It was not the fault of the inspired, accurate and complete revelation. It was the fault of the uninspired interpreters who did not expend enough perspiration to understand inspiration. When did the saints ever understand God’s revelation completely? Do we understand it completely even today? Or has God so worked in His revelation that it will forever challenge (and humble) even the greatest minds in the church? Certainly, the saving essentials are simple enough for a child to understand, but all the subtle nuances of biblical typology may never be exhaustively unveiled even though mankind has an eternity to interpret it. As John Murray often said about our present state of understanding, “We are but touching the fringes of the mystery of God’s will.” So why is Gentry so shocked that the church missed some things?

If we don’t believe we can make progress in our understanding of God’s Word, why are we constantly trying to refine our hermeneutics (interpretative skills)? If the early church really solved all the enigmas, exegeted faithfully all the biblical doctrines, and infallibly formulated all the creeds, why bother reforming or reconstructing anything? What was the Reformation all about? Why bother “always reforming” if there is nothing else left to be reformed? Why spill so much blood and ink if it was all infallibly set in stone from the creedal era? Why not just take what the early church has given us (sacerdotalism, Maryolatry and all) and just stick with it? Have Gentry’s books made any improvement upon the early church’s understanding of eschatology? Or is he just regurgitating what the historic church “always and everywhere” believed? Why bother writing any more books if there is no possibility of improving our understanding?

[GENTRY] Clement of Rome lived through A.D. 70 and had no idea he was resurrected! He continued to look for a physical resurrection (Clement 50:3). Jude's (supposed) grandsons still sought a physical resurrection (cf. Eusebius, EH 3:24:4). Whoever these men were, they come right out of the first generation and in the land of Israel - with absolutely no inkling of an A.D. 70 resurrection or a past Second Advent. See also the Didache 10:5; 16:1ff (first century); Ignatius, Trallians 9:2; Smyrnaens 2:1; 6:1; Letter to Polycarp 3:2 (early second century); Polycarp 2:1; 6:2; 7:1. See also Papias, Irenaeus, Justin Martyr.

Gentry cites several patristic writers in defense of his futurist position, leaving the impression that no early writers made any significant Preterist statements, and that early writers were mostly futurist in orientation. It is quite surprising to see Gentry do this, especially in view of the other great quotes of patristic writers in his books in defense of the Preterist view of Revelation. For example, see his BJF (pp. 41-109, 343-353) and The Beast of Revelation (pp. 129-166). Which list of patristic citations does Gentry want us to use? Is there support for the Preterist view in the patristic writings or not? Does Gentry really believe that the Preterist view implies that “no one in church history knew the major issues of which they spoke - until very recently?” If he does, why does he take a basic Preterist approach to so many passages that the historic church did not? Gentry needs to make up his mind. He is arguing against his own position here. The historic creeds did not teach “some kind of judgment coming at AD 70” like Gentry. It is amazing to see Gentry use Papias, Irenaeus and Justin Martyr here as evidence against the Preterist view, when in his other writings against the Premillennialists, he repudiates their value as witnesses, and even uses some of them to buttress his own partial Preterist view. There seems to be a little “doublespeak” going on here. Whose side is Gentry really on? He keeps manufacturing ammunition for the skeptical opposition!

David Chilton’s Paradise Restored has some excellent quotes from patristic writers which support the Preterist viewpoint. And my two articles on the creeds (mentioned above) quote several more, as well as some of the leading patristic scholars who show what the early church really believed about eschatology. They didn’t understand the full implications of AD 70 any more than they understood any of the other systematized views which we moderns have formulated, including Gentry’s own views. And if we have to have clear and universal patristic support for our position before it can be seriously considered, Gentry’s own views would be just as disqualified. Who says we have to have any patristic support for a doctrine that can be proven from Scripture? What was the whole point of the Reformers’ stand on sola Scriptura?

Gentry makes a big deal here about Clement of Rome and others, whose lifespans overlapped the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70. Clement supposedly wrote his epistle to the Corinthian church about AD 96. I will quote the section Gentry makes reference to (50:3) with the Scripture references Clement alludes to inserted in brackets:

All the generations from Adam even unto this day have passed away; but those who, through the grace of God, have been made perfect [1 Corinthians. 13:10] in love, now possess a place [John 14:3] among the godly, and shall be made manifest [Rom. 8:19; 1 Corinthians. 1:7,8; Col. 3:4; 1 Pet. 1:3-9; 1 John. 3:2] at the visitation of the kingdom of Christ. For it is written, “Enter into thy secret chambers for a little time, until my wrath and fury pass away; and I will remember a propitious day, and will raise you up out of your graves. [Isa. 26; Ezek. 37]”

Note that this passage does not use the words “physical resurrection,” but even if we agreed with Gentry that Clement was referring to a “physical resurrection,” that would not remove all the other embarrassing problems in this text. Does Gentry really accept all the other “interpretations and applications” of Clement here? In the context around this quotation, Clement is talking about Paul’s discourse on love (1 Corinthians. 13). Notice the flip-flop between realized (“already”) events and imminent future (“not yet”) events. Clement leaves the impression that the “perfect” had already come and that the eternal dwelling “place” (which Jesus said would be given at His return) had already been given to those who had already “been made perfect.” But Clement was still expecting the (imminent, i.e. “a little time”) arrival of the kingdom of Christ. The “propitious day” of the kingdom’s arrival and their resurrection was imminent (only “a little time” away). Gentry says that when there are imminent time indicators in a passage, they mean “imminence.” So what was the resurrection that was imminent to Clement? Was it really imminent? Did Clement goof? I suspect Gentry would not agree with all of Clement’s interpretations here in this one brief text, much less with all the other ones in the rest of Clement’s writings and the other early writers he cites. Does Clement really carry any weight with Gentry? Would he agree with what Papias, Irenaeus, Justin Martyr and the other apostolic fathers say about the book of Revelation and its late date? Absolutely not! In BJF Gentry spends a whole chapter discounting Irenaeus’ value as evidence. Why then is he using them against the Preterist view? It looks like he is shooting himself in the foot again. I’m sure his Premillennial opponents will love the nice things he says about the apostolic fathers.

Before we leave Clement, I must deal with his interpretation of the resurrection. He quotes or alludes to several ideas found in Isa. 26, Ezek. 37 and other OT resurrection texts. Clement says God “will raise you up out of your graves.” The passage here could easily be taken in the same collective national sense as Ezek. 37’s restoration from Babylonian captivity, or may simply be speaking of the eschatological regathering of all those who were “dead in sin” back to life in the kingdom of God, the true Israel. There is more than one way to interpret the language here. Gentry and other futurists have made some assumptions about this text that are clearly unwarranted, especially in view of the fact that Gentry admits (in his point four) that Scripture speaks of more than one type of resurrection, and mentions Ezek. 37 as a case in point. What is also interesting is that Ezek. 37:12f even mentions the nation of Israel coming up out of their “graves” (captivity) and being restored to the land of Israel. This resurrection was Israel’s return from Babylonian captivity under Ezra and Nehemiah in 536 BC and following. Was it a literal physical resurrection of physically dead Jews out of physical graves? No, of course not. Gentry would agree that it is speaking of their restoration from captivity. Even if Clement was expecting a physical resurrection, he was alluding to passages that were not teaching a physical resurrection. So, Clement was wrong not only in his interpretation of the TIMING of the eschatological events, but also of their NATURE of fulfillment as well. The same can be said for most (if not all) of the patristic writers Gentry lists here. No Christian should jump for joy as we realize how mistaken the early church was in their understanding of the time and nature of eschatological fulfillments. But, we shouldn’t hesitate too long in admitting their failure and correcting them, however, since the only alternative is to charge the mistake to Jesus and the apostles. Which of these two alternatives does Gentry pick? Is he going to keep manufacturing ammunition for the liberals, skeptics, and anti-Christian critics?

[GENTRY] Berkouwer rightly notes that the reason the resurrection found early creedal acceptance was because of the clear emphasis of the New Testament. The hyper-Preterist view has serious and embarrassing implications for the perspicuity of Scripture - and despite the fact we are now (supposedly) in our resurrected states and have the outpoured Holy Spirit and His gift of teachers who were to protect us from every wind of doctrine (Eph. 4)!

There are several misunderstandings wrapped up in Gentry’s remarks above. When he cites Berkouwer in defense of the idea that “the resurrection found early creedal acceptance,” he builds a straw man argument. He leaves the impression that full Preterists deny the biblical (and creedal) doctrine of a collective resurrection. We don’t. It is a biblical eschatological event. Anyone who denies it has definitely put himself outside biblical orthodoxy. Full Preterists believe the Bible teaches that a collective resurrection would occur. We just disagree with traditional “interpretations and applications” of the TIME and NATURE of that resurrection. Gentry assumes that there is only one way to interpret the NATURE of fulfillment of the resurrection (i.e. that it can only be a physical resuscitation of the individual’s physical body and its physical exit from the grave). On the basis of that assumption, he interprets the TIME of fulfillment as still future (since there is no record of anything like that occurring at AD 70). What if his presuppositions about the NATURE of fulfillment are incorrect? That would invalidate his assumptions about the TIME of fulfillment as well. If we must hold rigidly to traditional interpretations about the time and nature of fulfillment, Gentry himself would be in trouble with his Reformed predecessors, most of whom believed the Roman church is the harlot of Revelation and that the pope is the Beast. Does Gentry have freedom to interpret the time and nature of fulfillment of those eschatological events differently than the Roman church or the Reformed churches? Is he the only one who has that freedom? If the Bible speaks so clearly on this subject that no other interpretations of the nature and time of fulfillment are possible, why is there so much disagreement about the book of Revelation among the various millennial camps? Is Gentry going to affirm that all other interpretations of the book of Revelation besides his are “heterodox” (outside the creedal orthodoxy of Christianity), and that his view (which is comparatively new also) is the only orthodox one? I would like to have seen the reaction of the other Reformed theologians present at the Symposium in Orlando (1993) if he had affirmed such a position in their hearing. It would indeed have been one of those occasions when “all heaven broke loose.” Since I will be dealing much more with the resurrection in later sections, I will not say any more about it here.

What I find interesting in Gentry’s statements here, is that he seems to leave himself hopelessly vulnerable to the charismatics’ arguments for a continuation of the miraculous sign gifts, when he says that we today still “have the outpoured Holy Spirit and His gift of teachers.” Full Preterists don’t believe that. This is another one of those areas where Gentry radically misunderstands what we full Preterists are saying. Charismatics will love him for his statements here, and take him right to Acts 2:17-21 to show that the charismatic gifts would be poured out “in the last days” up until “the great and glorious day of the Lord.” Then they would go to 1 Corinthians. 1:5-8 to show him that the saints would not be “lacking in any gift” as they eagerly awaited “the revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ” and “the end” and “the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.” Gentry fails to show why this latter passage could not be speaking about the return of Christ. The charismatics will keep stabbing him with it until he gets the point. If Christ’s return (the one mentioned in 1 Corinthians. 1:5-8) has not happened yet, then the charismata must still be around. Gentry has written a book against Wayne Grudem’s views explaining why he believes the charismata ceased in the first century, but it did not explain away the problem raised by this passage (1 Corinthians. 1:5-8). The full Preterist can consistently affirm an AD 70 cessation based on these three texts (Acts 2:17ff; 1 Corinthians. 1:5-8; 1 Corinthians. 13:8ff). If Gentry does not take a Preterist approach to these passages, he leaves himself defenseless against the charismatic view. But if he does take a Preterist approach here, his statement that we still “have the outpoured Holy Spirit and His gift of teachers” seems inconsistent and contradictory.

Is the Holy Spirit still functioning as a Paraclete? Has the Paraclete ceased giving those miraculous gifts? They were not supposed to cease until “the revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ” at “the End” and “the Day of our Lord Jesus Christ.” (1 Corinthians. 1:7f) Will Gentry affirm that the “revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ” has already occurred at AD 70 (as he implies in his commentary on the book of Revelation). If not, then his whole book against Wayne Grudem’s views falls flat on its face in hopeless inconsistency. Gentry also leaves the door wide open for a loosing of Satan at the end of the millennium (which he believes is still future), which implies a resumption of demon-possession and lying signs and wonders. This would necessitate the resumption of the Paraclete’s distribution of charismatic gifts to counteract Satan’s activity. It is not surprising that many Premillennial dispensationalists who believe the end of the world is imminent, also believe Satan has been released and the charismata are back in full force. Gentry has no consistent way to counter this argument for the fresh outbreak of the charismata at the end of the millennium. And since he believes Christ’s major coming after the millennium is still future, he must believe in either the continuance of the charismata until that final return, or the resumption of them at the release of Satan at the end of the millennium. And if the Paraclete is not done with His work yet (which included inspired revelatory work), Gentry is put in the unenviable position of believing the revelation, confirmation and consummation of redemption is not yet complete. This would open the canon of Scripture and unseat Christ as the ultimate in redemption.

Gentry says the charismatic gifts ceased and that the perfect (or fullness) arrived in the first century, and that the transition period is over. But, as the charismatics are very quick and fond of pointing out, it is inconsistent to say the perfect has arrived and the transition period is over, if the eschatology is not also consummated. The charismatic gifts and the transitional state of partialness would not cease until the “apocalupsis” of Christ and “The Day” of Christ arrived (1 Corinthians. 1:7,8). The cessation is tied directly to the consummation. If the cessation has occurred (as Gentry affirms), then the consummation of eschatology must also have occurred. If the transition period for Pneumatology is over, the transition period of eschatology must also be over. If the consummation has not yet occurred, the charismata have to still be around. The constantly reiterated NT theme of an imminent completion of the transition from a state of partial-ness to one of completeness (maturity or perfection) is shared in common by soteriology, Pneumatology and eschatology. This common thread of “somewhat already, not yet everything, but imminent” consummation of all three of these theological systems is the worldview of the NT. Schweitzer, Dodd, Cullmann and others have noted this. Paul’s writings especially show that all three of these theological systems (soteriology, Pneumatology and eschatology) were inseparably interconnected and were being brought to consummation together in that transitional generation. Non-charismatic Reformers only see the past fulfillment of soteriology and Pneumatology. Their eschatological consummation is still futurized. Charismatics agree that soteriology is fulfilled, but see Pneumatology and eschatology fulfillments as still future. But full Preterists see all three as inseparably interrelated, and by necessity consummated together at AD 70. Because Gentry has a partially realized eschatology, he should also have a charismatic Pneumatology and a partially realized soteriology to be consistent. The charismatic gifts have not ceased unless Christ has returned for his final time. Gentry needs to get consistent on this.

 

Without A Canon?

[GENTRY] Third, the hyper-Preterist system leaves the New Covenant Christian (in our post A.D. 70 era) without a canon. If all prophecy was fulfilled prior to A.D. 70 and if the entire New Testament spoke to issues in the pre-A.D. 70 time frame, we do not have any directly relevant passages for us. The entire New Testament must be transposed before we can use it.

Third. The full Preterist view does not render the NT Scriptures irrelevant to Christians after AD 70. Nor do full Preterists teach that all prophecy has been totally fulfilled with absolutely no continuing implications, applications and ongoing fulfillments. This is a gross misrepresentation and misunderstanding of the full Preterist view. This would indeed be “post-everything-ism” and “hyper-Preterism.”

In many of His parables and discourses, Jesus taught what life would be like in the kingdom when it arrived. The church only had the “earnest” and “seal” of their kingdom inheritance during that transitional generation (AD 30-70). If anything, we in the post-70 period have a more relevant and applicable revelation. We are now in the kingdom. The full inheritance is here. All the things Jesus, Paul and the other apostles taught about the kingdom now apply fully to us. Several prophetic passages have ongoing fulfillment in the kingdom (i.e. Ezek. 47:1-12 and Rev. 21:24–22:5).

Gentry is the one who has a problem with kingdom passages being relevant to us today if Matt. 5:17-19 is still in force. That passage implies that the kingdom would not arrive until the present “heaven and earth” passed away. Gentry believes that the “heaven and earth” mentioned in Matt. 5:17ff are still here, so in order to be consistent, he would have to believe that the kingdom (mentioned in that text) has not arrived yet either, and that all the kingdom principles taught by Jesus and others are not yet relevant for us. He must still believe that every jot and tittle of the Law is still binding upon us until “heaven and earth” passes away. The theonomist interpretation of Matt. 5:17-19 is the one which “leaves the New Covenant Christian without” any “directly relevant passages.” They are the ones who relegate full NT relevancy to a still future period and still bind us under the OT sacrificial system. They are taking us in the opposite direction away from full NT relevancy. It is that interpretation which forces us to “transpose the entire NT before we can use it.” Other Reformed theologians who are not theonomists have made that very charge against them. Full Preterists are the ones who take Ezek. 47; Rev. 21-22; Jesus’ Kingdom parables and Paul’s Kingdom teaching, and construct a fully relevant NT plan of redemption and eschatology. We are advocating full relevance of NT kingdom principles, while theonomists cannot consistently do so. According to them, we are still saddled with the OT “jots and tittles” until the physical “heaven and earth” pass away. Who is really robbing us of a fully relevant NT canon?



Hermeneutic Failure


[GENTRY] Fourth, hyper-Preterism suffers from serious errors in its hermeneutical methodology. When a contextually defined passage applies to the A.D. 70 event, the hyper-Preterist will take all passages with similar language and apply them to A.D. 70, as well. But similarity does not imply identity; Christ cleansed the Temple twice and in virtually identical ways; but the two events are not the same. Furthermore, we must distinguish sense and referent; there are several types of "resurrection" in Scripture: the dry bones of Ezek. 37; spiritual redemption in John 5:24; physical redemption at the grave in John 5:28; Israel's renewal in Christ in Rom. 11:15; and of the Beast in Rev. 13:3. I hold that passages specifically delimiting the time-frame by temporal indicators (such as "this generation," "shortly," "at hand," "near," and similar wording) are to be applied to A.D. 70, but similar sounding passages may or may not be so applied.


Fourth. It may surprise Gentry to know that all full Preterists share his hermeneutical concerns about the similarity of language. We agree that it takes more than just similarity of language to prove identity of subject. All of the historical, grammatical and hermeneutical tools must be applied to the eschatological texts. No full Preterist writer has ever suggested otherwise. No full Preterist builds his case on just similarity of language, as Gentry implies here. That is only one of the many factors a careful exegete looks at, and Gentry uses it to his advantage in his writings against Premillennialism. Similarity of language does point in the direction of identity of application, so it must be at least one of the tools used in correct interpretation.

It is at this very point where all interpreters differ. For instance, there are other partial Preterists like Gary DeMar and John Bray who would interpret many more of the eschatological passages as having an AD 70 fulfillment. They certainly would not agree with Gentry’s charge of “serious errors.” Similarity of language is one of their major arguments, as well as Gentry’s. Why is it appropriate for them to affirm an AD 70 fulfillment of those same passages, but not for full Preterists? It is simply because they still hold out for a future coming, resurrection and judgment, even though they don’t agree as to which passages really deal with it. If the perspicuity of Scripture is so easy and clear on eschatology (as Gentry has alleged), how do we account for such diversity of opinion among the partial Preterists?

There are several Reformed writers who take a Preterist position on most of the eschatological passages. If we were to collect all their Preterist statements into one volume and construct a systematic view of eschatology from them, what would we end up with? John Owen, Gary DeMar, David Chilton, et al, take 2 Pet. 3 as finding fulfillment in AD 70. Gentry takes most of Revelation as being fulfilled at AD 70. DeMar and Chilton take all of Matthew 24 as fulfilled at AD 70. Gentry understands all the passages with imminent time indicators as fulfilled in AD 70, as does Gary DeMar. On and on we could go bringing writer after writer from the past three centuries into the collection. When we finished, we would have a full Preterist view systematically developed and defended by respected Reformed exegetes, all of whom would deny they interpreted Scripture merely on the basis of similarity of language. Gentry needs to reexamine this line of argumentation. He uses similarity of language in his own arguments against Premillennialism. He is shooting himself in the foot again.

Gentry mentions only two other hermeneutical tools he uses to determine if similar language is referring to the same subject (“contextually defined” and “sense/referent”). I’m sure he uses other historical, grammatical and contextual methods besides these. So it is presumptuous of him to leave the impression that full Preterists don’t use any other tools except similarity of language. And I totally agree with the other two tools he uses. I use them too. But evidently we are not arriving at the same conclusions because of some of the other tools that he and I are using (or failing to use).

Gentry looks for a time-frame indicator as one of his tests for an AD 70 interpretation of a “similar” passage. All full Preterists I know would agree with that approach. Gentry admits that passages not having a time indicator “may” still be “applied” to AD 70. And there are several partial Preterists who would apply them to AD 70 and reject his charge of being guilty of merely looking at “similarity of language.” Therefore, I think he has failed to justify his charge of “serious errors in hermeneutical methodology.” We simply differ on how to use the hermeneutical tools. I suspect there are a few non-Preterist, non-theonomist, Reformed theologians who would accuse Gentry of “serious errors in his hermeneutical methodology.” His weak position in regard to the cessation of the charismata at AD 70, and his theonomic interpretation of Matt. 5:17-19 are only a couple of the examples where his hermeneutical failure shows up.

In regard to this hermeneutical rule about similarity of language, what do we do with those texts which use not just “similar” language, but exactly the same terminology and phraseology by the same author without any distinction or clarification? Where does Jesus ever distinguish between two different “comings” (Gr. Parousia) of “the Son of Man” accompanied by “the angels” “in glory” with “the clouds?” But applying Gentry’s rule about similarity of language to the whole Matthew 23-25 context, we would have to look for such a clarification somewhere else in Jesus’ teaching (since it cannot be found in that context). And what is interesting, the word Parousia is not used by Jesus anywhere else in the four gospel accounts. So, there is no place in Jesus’ teaching where He distinguishes between two different Parousia's separated by thousands of years. What are we to conclude? What would the first century saints have concluded? Where is any indication that they understood two different Parousia's separated by thousands of years? Gentry’s hermeneutics creates an ungetoverable dilemma for him here, and leaves him hopelessly vulnerable to the liberal skeptics who assert that Jesus indeed promised His one and only Parousia in that imminent generation. And since they (and Gentry) both agree that it didn’t occur, the integrity of Christ and the apostles is destroyed. Gentry’s hermeneutics opens the door to devastating conclusions about the integrity of Jesus and the Apostles. It seems he would prefer to keep the reputation of the creed-writers stainless, while letting the integrity of Christ and the apostles be wasted. That is the very issue that is at stake here. It is Gentry, failing to take full account of the identity of similar language in the eschatological texts, who opens the door for the critics of Biblical integrity.
 

Resurrection Errors


[GENTRY] Fifth, there is a serious problem with the removal of the physical resurrection from systematic theology. Christ's resurrection is expressly declared to be the paradigm of our own (1 Corinthians. 15:20ff). Yet we know that His was a physical, tangible resurrection (Luke 24:39), whereas ours is (supposedly) spiritual. What happens to the biblically defined analogy between Christ's resurrection and ours in the hyper-Preterist system?

Fifth – Here is another misrepresentation by Gentry. He claims the full Preterist view removes “the physical resurrection from systematic theology” and thereby negates “the biblically defined analogy [continuity] between Christ's resurrection and ours.” Not exactly.

Before we can reasonably discuss the amount of continuity our resurrection bodies have with Christ’s, we need to know what kind of resurrection body He had with which we are supposed to be in conformity. Once we define the nature of His resurrection body, then we can discuss the degree of our continuity with it. This is where most studies of the resurrection falter. Too many assume that Jesus’ resurrection body was nothing more than the same kind (or quality) of pure physical body that He had before the crucifixion. Is that a valid assumption? Is it possible that the nature of His resurrection body was different? Or, was it still nothing more than a mere physical body, just like the body with which Lazarus was raised?

I have asked several Reformed preachers this question: “Was Jesus’ resurrection body exactly the same in every detail (with absolutely no changes of any kind) as His pre-cross body?” Every single one of those to whom I asked this question replied, “No, it’s different in some way.” A similar admission was verbalized by one of the participants at the 1993 Covenant Eschatology Symposium. During one of the discussion periods, one of the participants argued strenuously for the idea that Christ had a physical resurrection, but admitted that Christ’s resurrection body was “...a transformed body, not completely identical with the one before....” And in that same discussion period Max King made the observation that while the Gnostics may have gone to the extreme of completely spiritualizing the nature of the resurrection body, some in the church may have gone to an equally un-biblical extreme of insisting on Christ having a completely physical resurrection body.

During another of the discussion periods, Max King suggested there may be a more biblical way of defining the nature of Christ’s resurrection body, which is somewhere between the two extremes. I believe most full Preterists would agree with that. Murray Harris, in his two books, Raised Immortal and From Grave To Glory, has labored carefully to define that “third” position, which avoids both of the extremes and better harmonizes the biblical data. J. I. Packer, Gleason Archer and Peter Toon have all stated in print that they see Murray Harris’ position as Scripturally orthodox, though Norman Geisler has challenged it. Unfortunately Harris’ books are now out of print. At the time of writing this, Kingdom Publications still had a few copies of his From Grave To Glory left in stock. We would highly recommend getting this book and reading it if you can.

In view of Harris’ excellent defense of the idea that Christ was raised immortal, it would seem evident that Jesus’ resurrection body cannot be accurately or exhaustively described as nothing more than a “pure physical body.” His post-resurrection appearances reveal that He had more than just a mere physical body. He was raised immortal. All the others who had been raised from physical death before Christ were raised mortal (still subject to death). Lazarus is a case in point. After being raised by Christ, he lived out the rest of his life and died again. He was raised with a pure physical body, nothing more. When Saul coerced the witch at Endor to summon Samuel from the realm of the dead, it was not a resurrection of Samuel’s physical body. It was the disembodied “pure spirit” form of Samuel (an apparition) which appeared and frightened even the necromancer.

What we see here are two extremely different kinds of appearances: one purely physical, and the other a pure spirit. Jesus’ resurrection body exhibited characteristics of both. His resurrection body was not just purely physical. Nor was it a pure spirit as was Samuel’s reappearance. Harris has shown convincingly and in conformity with biblical orthodoxy that Christ was raised immortal, with a kind of body that no human had ever possessed. How can we say that Jesus is the “firstfruit” of the resurrection if He had the same kind of resurrection body as all the others before Him who had merely been raised physically? Jesus was the first one ever to be raised with that kind of body. He was the “firstfruit” (1 Corinthians. 15:20) of the resurrection harvest. His resurrection body was not “purely physical,” nor was it “pure spirit.” He was raised with an immortal body. He was the same person, but a different kind of body. He was raised bodily, but not with the same kind of body.

Note how Paul not only clarifies the nature of the resurrection body in 1 Corinthians. 15, but also affirms the continuity and conformity of our bodies with Christ’s resurrection body:

...it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. So also it is written, “The first man, Adam, became a living soul.” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit. ...as is the heavenly, so also are those who are heavenly. And just as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly. Now I say this, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. (1 Corinthians. 15:44-50)

We are supposed to get the same kind of body that Jesus has. Jesus’ and our resurrection bodies are described by Paul in this text as being “spiritual,” “glorious,” “imperishable,” “incorruptible,” “immortal” and “heavenly.” This doesn’t sound like a mere physical mortal body at all. Harris has done an excellent job of establishing this point from the Biblical teaching about the resurrection. Jesus wasn’t raised with a physical body first and then changed into a spiritual body. He wasn’t raised mortal and then changed to immortal. He was “raised immortal” and “spiritual” already. As Peter said, “For Christ also died for sins once for all, the just for the unjust, in order that He might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit...” (1 Pet. 3:18).

Jesus was raised with a body that was suited to His life in the heavenly realm. The fact that He ascended into heaven with that same body suggests that it must have been much more than just a pure physical body. Scripture affirms numerous times that mere physical bodies cannot live in the spiritual realm. Christ was able to manifest Himself in a tangible/visible form on several occasions after His resurrection and before His ascension, but He was also able to disappear and remain in an intangible, immaterial form. This is something new. No one had ever been raised with that kind of body before. It was immortal (no longer subject to physical death). When Jesus appeared, He ate with them, but not because His new body needed food to stay alive. He did so for evidence purposes. It was to prove that He truly had been raised and was not just a disembodied spirit (like Samuel’s appearance) awaiting the final resurrection like everyone else. His resurrection with an immortal body was proof that the long-awaited defeat of Death and reign of Life had begun. His appearances were signs that the eschaton had arrived and that the full and final destruction of Death and Hades was imminent. He disappeared again to prove that He was not just a mortal body like Lazarus’ resuscitated physical body. He was raised immortal. The fact that He was able to exhibit both material and immaterial qualities in His resurrection appearances was proof that He had brought true life and immortality to light. He was the first fruit of that kind of eternal, immortal life. The fact that Christ appeared in tangible/visible form does not prove that His resurrection body was merely a physical body, nor does it prove that He even had “a physical, tangible resurrection” as Gentry suggested in his point number five. Harris (in From Grave To Glory) has shown the profound significance of these tangible manifestations as evidence that Christ had indeed overcome the power of Death and was raised with an immortal, spiritual, imperishable, incorruptible and glorious heavenly body.

Gentry is merely repeating the shallow popular view when he says, “Yet we know that His was a physical, tangible resurrection.” If Gentry is correct, Jesus’ resurrection body was nothing better than what Lazarus got when he was physically resuscitated. Murray Harris was not the first to suggest an alternative. Most of the various theories about the nature of Christ’s resurrection body and ours was discussed by the Ante-Nicene, Nicene and Post-Nicene ecclesiastics. J. N. D. Kelly, Jaroslav Pelikan, Louis Berkhof, Brian Daley, Kurt Aland and Philip Schaff all discuss the various positions taken by church fathers. Origen, Augustine and others took some similar ideas about the nature of our resurrection bodies. This is not something new conjured up by Murray Harris or the Preterists.

Preterists are not removing the physical body from the Bible’s systematic theology regarding the resurrection. It was never the ultimate kind of resurrection body God had planned and revealed in Scripture in the first place. Our ultimate victory over “Death” was never intended to be the abolition of physical death. Those who say the “death” God threatened in the Garden was physical are making Satan the truth-teller and God the liar. God said they would “die” the very day they ate. Satan said they would not die. Who told the truth? If God was talking about physical death, then Satan was correct and God did not deliver on His death threat. God would not be immutable after all. But man was separated from God’s spiritual fellowship that very day. To be outside God’s fellowship and presence is Death. There was a worse kind of death than physical death from which mankind more desperately needed deliverance. There is a better kind of life and resurrection than physical resuscitation could ever give us. We were not destined to be raised with a mere physical and mortal body. There is something much better. We were destined to be raised immortal with a spiritual body like Christ’s with which to live in God’s presence forever with. All of us agree that we cannot live in God’s presence eternally with a mere physical body. Even those who believe we are raised with a pure physical body still understand that we have to be changed into a spiritual, glorious, immortal body before entering God’s presence. So, the difference between Gentry’s view and mine is not about what kind of ultimate body we will live in God’s presence with. It is merely a question of WHEN we get that new kind of body. Gentry says we are raised physically and then later changed into that ultimate spiritual body. Harris and many oth