Response to the Response to: “We Must Tell Our Kids The Truth”
Richard K. McPherson
Dan Delagrave
wrote an article called, “We Must Tell Our Kids The
Truth” and Chris Perver from Prophecy in the News
responded. This is in a response to his comments. I will be using the following
scale:
Dan Dalagrave is this color (black)
Chris Perver
is this color (black bold)
Richard K. McPherson is
color (blue bold)
Let’s let Scripture to interpret Scripture.
We
Christian parents need to stop telling our kids lines like “when Jesus comes
again…dadadadada”. Why?
Because Jesus put the fulfillment of his Second Coming within the timeframe
restriction of “this generation” (Matt.24:34, Mk.13:30, Lk.21:32). That’s all the reason we need!
A
Biblical generation was thought of in the same sense as a generation is thought
of today - a lifespan period of time. The word
“this” in the English dictionary means “pertaining to
the present”. Jesus OBVIOUSLY meant the THEN-PRESENT generation of the
Apostles when he said that all things, which included his Second Coming and the
end of the age, would be fulfilled before “this
generation” passed away. It isn’t even
debatable, to be quite frank with you. In Lk.17:25, Jesus told the
Disciples that he must first suffer many things and be “rejected (crucified) of
this generation”. We all know what generation crucified Jesus, and it wasn’t “the 1948 generation”, or any other modern
invention! We MUST remain consistent a few chapters later in Lk.21:32,
where Jesus said that “all”, not some, would be fulfilled
before “this generation” passed away.
There are three different understandings of the word
“generation”. The one that Dan mentions is the one most people would adhere to,
that the “generation” referred to is the average lifespan of a human being, or
the number of years between a generation and the birth of the next generation. Seventy years, or forty years respectively. The Bible makes
use of this term when referring to the number of years
Num 32:13
And the LORD’S anger was kindled
against Israel, and he made them wander in the wilderness forty years, until
all the generation, that had done evil in the sight of the LORD, was consumed.
The Hebrew word for this usage of “generation” is the word “dore”, a revolution of time. Another word in the Hebrew which has been translated as “generation” in English,
is the word “ghen-nay-mah”, a generation of people.
This refers to a specific group, rather than a specific time
period. John the Baptist used the word in speaking to the Pharisees…
Mat 3:7
But when he saw many of the Pharisees
and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers,
who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?
The generation Jesus referred to, when He said He would be
rejected of “this generation”, is another word again, “ghen-eh-ah”.
This refers to a specific people in a certain age. This is the same word that is used in Jesus Christ’s prophecy, “this generation shall
not pass away”. The question then arises, which generation? The beginning of
the chapter in no doubt refers to the destruction of the
Luke 21:24
And they (the Jews) shall fall by the edge of the sword,
and shall be led away captive into all nations: (AD 70) and
Friends, the times of the Gentiles lasted 1900 years, from
the date Titus conquered
Luke 21:25-27
And there shall be signs in the sun,
and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with
perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring; Men’s hearts failing them for fear,
and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the
powers of heaven shall be shaken. And then shall they
see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
So the question is, which generation is Jesus referring to
when He states, the generation that sees all these things come
to pass will be the last? The answer is obvious, the generation that
witnesses the times of the Gentiles coming to a close.
Chris, with all due
respect, you are taking the above scriptures out of context. Put yourself in
the year 27 to 30 ad and this man Jesus was talking to
you and said, “Verily I say unto you,
This generation shall not pass away, till all these things be accomplished.” (Matthew 24:34) How would you interpret that? So why are
putting a 2000-year and still counting on this phrase? Jesus meant what He said
and He said what He meant.
You quote Numbers 32:13.
Then “generation” is the people living at that time would not enter into the
promise land. That is why they had to wonder in the wilderness for 40 years.
You then quote Matthew 3:7. Here John NOT Jesus is talking to
the Pharisees and Sadducees and telling them “O generation of vipers, who hath
warned you to flee from the wrath to come?” John was talking to the
people of his day warning them of the coming wrath, which hasn’t
come yet. Why would John telling people about a coming wrath it that wrath is
1900 years in the future. Why was John so server with those people when that
event wouldn’t happen for 1000’s of years? You then
quote Matthew 24:34. Jesus is still talking to the
same people that John was talking to. You are looking
at a 2 ½ year from John saying “this generation” and Jesus saying “this generation”.
Both are the same. Both are consistent with each other. You have John’s
speech in Matthew 3:7 at one moment in time and you have Jesus’s
speech at another.
You state, “Friends,
the times of the Gentiles lasted 1900 years, from the date Titus conquered
You then quote Luke 21:25-27. In Luke 21:1-24, you might believe that this is
talking about 70ad, but in verse 25-27 it is future.
What kind of logic is that? Was Jesus confused? Jesus is talking to the same
people and on the same topic throughout the who
chapter of Luke 21 as in Matthew 24. Put the correct time-frame.
Notice that Jesus said “this” not a generation sometime later like 1000’s of
years in the future, but “this” To put
it in another terms, Jesus’s generation, because
Jesus was living in the same generation as to the people he was taking to. You
said, “The answer is obvious, the generation
that witnesses the times of the Gentiles coming to a close.” Show me where Jesus is talking about witnesses the “times of
the Gentiles” It says nothing about witnessing the times of the Gentiles in the
whole context. Luke 21”1-37 or in Matthew 24.
It is commonly declared
that the word "generation," in Matthew 24:34,
means to imply that the "race" of the Jews would not pass, till all
the mentioned events came to pass. There is no justification for such a
position. C.I. Scofield, in his Bible's reference to
this verse, recognized this, and actually SWITCHED the definition of the word
from that of genea
to that of genos, which is an entirely different word! The following will show that there is a great distinction between
the two, and that Matthew 24:34 means the age of people then living,
and not the entire Jewish "race." The following quote by
Chilton encapsulizes the sphere of this debate:
"Some have sought to
get around the force of this text by saying that the word generation here really means race, and that Jesus was simply saying that the Jewish race would not die
out until all these things took place. Is that true? I
challenge you: Get out your concordance, look up every New Testament occurrence
of the word generation (in Greek, genea), and see if
it ever means 'race' in any other context. Here are
all the references for the Gospels: Matthew 1:17; 11:16; 12:39, 41, 42, 45;
16:4; 17:17; 23:36; 24:34; Mark 8:12, 38; 9:19; 13:30; Luke 1:48, 50; 7:31;
9:41; 11:29, 30, 31, 32, 50, 51; 18:8; 17:25; 21:32. Not one of these references is
speaking of the entire Jewish race over thousands of years; all use the word in its normal sense of the sum total of those living at the same time.
It always refers to contemporaries. In fact, those who say it means
"race" tend to acknowledge this fact, but explain that the word
suddenly changes its
meaning when Jesus uses it in Matthew 24!"2 The Jews missed Jesus,
because they were looking for something physical and they missed him. Over and over, Jesus told them that His kingdom was not of
this world and what did the Jews do. The same time that
people today do, still looking for a physical kingdom. Just like today,
people are taking words of Jesus literally. (Note: today people pick and chose which to take literally or not._
So we need to start telling our kids THE TRUTH.
Pastors today are in a tough
position. They face LOSING THEIR JOB should they tell the truth.
This is unlike the first century, where pastors weren’t
plugged into a clergy system that gave them a comfortable salary for preaching
the truth. This is why pastors today commonly AVOID teaching Bible
prophecy. In other words, rather than risk losing their job should they
have a change of mind about their denomination’s official position on
eschatology, they avoid the subject altogether.
Let’s face it, a typical pastor today who suddenly began teaching the
Preterist view of eschatology would get OUSTED in short order. It’s the nature of the beast (the conventional church system
and denominationalism). Many pastors are simply unwilling to give up a
comfortable salary and good standing before the community in
order to openly teach the truth. So they
“leave well enough alone”. Come on, now. Can we be just a little
bit real here?
It has been said
that the next reformation will concern eschatology. That reformation, is, in fact, already underway. As Thomas
Ice, founder of “the
No comment. Anyone who reads this site will
soon see evidence for all this coming to pass in our
lifetime. The millennium bug was a hoax by the
The only comment that I have is
this. Let’s see who and what is TRUTH. The Bible (God) in context or man who has been wrong on this topic
since the first century. The Jews missed Jesus’ first and Second Coming,
because they refused to let God speak for Himself. Today, we are doing what the
Jews did. People refuse to let God speak for Himself
and not putting scripture into the correct time-frame. The Bible is for us NOT
to us. Why are you coming down on people like Hal Lindsey, when you are doing
the same thing? You can add Jack Van Impe to the
list. You can say that the millennium was a hoax, because noting happen when
the year of 2000 come. At that moment of time,
(December 1999), everyone was so worry about the 2000 bug. Preachers were
saying that the end of the world was coming, the governments were spending
millions, and people were moving to
A person must have conviction and
believe in something. The apostles had conviction and a belief that they died for. Let’s use the scenario.
Would you be willing to die for what you believe in or would you
compromised? Would you be willing to loose you job if you know what you are
doing is pure wrong or would you compromised? Preachers today
looses their jobs, because membership or attendance is down on Sunday
morning. They loose their jobs, because brother or sister so and so started a
false rumor and everyone believes it. They loose their job, because of no
growth. When there is no growth, funds don’t grow.
Been there, seen that. I know of a
congregation that studied Preterism (at that time it was
called “Covenant Eschatology) and they found out to be true. They
refused and turned their back on it and refuse to talk or study it again. Why?
Turning you back on what you
believe in is living a lie. I don’t compromise when it come to God’s word. I don’t compromise on my convections. Sure, one can chance
through study and prayer. Just because one has a strong belief in something doesn’t mean you quit studying.
People
want answers to all the failed hype and false predictions. This has
caused “a second reformation”. Believers have gone “back to the Bible”
for answers, where they have noticed a particular TIMEFRAME for the fulfillment
of Bible prophecy, that being “this generation”.
We
MUST tell our kids the truth if we are to keep this much
needed reformation going strong for generations to come.
The
“1948 generation” proved to be a false teaching. Here we are almost 60
years removed from 1948 and still no Jesus on a big chair in
Not
exactly. 1948 saw
prophecy fulfilled, when a nation was born in one day (Isaiah 66:8),
when Hebrew became the official language of the Jews (Zephaniah 3:9)
and the Jews returned to their ancient homeland
You state that Daniel 9:24 has
not been fulfilled as of yet, correct? If that is the case, then end of
sacrifice has not happened, verse 27. If you say there is a gap, show me where
a 1900 gap is in this text. For us to
add a gap in time, where God has not made any mention of it, is to add word in
God’s month that are not there. Let me
break it down for you about Daniel 9:1
1.
"To finish the transgression,"
- This was fulfilled. (Luke 11:47-51; Matthew 23:29-32; Matthew 21:33-45)
2.
"Make an end of sins,"
- This was fulfilled. (John 1:29; Matthew 1:21; Acts
10:43; Hebrews 9:26)
3.
"Make reconciliation for iniquity,"
- This was fulfilled. (2 Corinthians 5:18-21; Hebrews 2:17;
4.
"Bring in everlasting righteousness,"
- This was fulfilled. (Romans 3:25, 26; Hebrews 9:12;
2 Thessalonians 2:16; 2 Corinthians 9:9)
5.
"Seal up vision and prophecy,"
- This was fulfilled. (Hebrews 1:1-2; John 1:1; II Peter 1:19-21)
6.
"Anoint the most holy (or holy place)."
- This was fulfilled. (Matthew 3:15-17; Luke 4:18;
Acts 4:26, 27; 10:38)
Daniel 9—FULFILLED—by 70ad
You site Isaiah 66:8,
Zephaniah 3:9 and Ezekiel 37, all being fulfilled with a “but” and Daniel 9:24
and Joel 3:1 not fulfilled. For this reason, you state it is because of the
Gentiles control. Show me where Gentiles is even mention is the texts. You
state, ”Without
Are you saying the “end
times” or “last days” have been going on for the past 1900 plus years? If that
is the case, explain to everyone what Hebrews 8:13 is saying. If the old is
passing away, what is the old or is the old still passing away after 1900
years. Let’s talk about words.
Let’s talk about “the 1948 generation”. That view of “this generation” is based on a wrong interpretation of the fig tree parable
in Matt.24:32-33. It is commonly taught that this parable is saying that
when
Jesus Christ singled out
the fig tree in his parable. The fig tree is a picture of
Hosea 9:10
I
found
The disciples were simply
to compare the fig tree to all the trees, because the fig tree is unique, in
that it is the first tree to blossom and bear fruit. It’s
leaves show that “summer is near”. Jesus was saying to His disciples, look at
all the trees, but when you see leaves on the fig (
Let’s look at this text in context shall we.
Matthew 24:32-34 “Now learn a
lesson from the fig tree. When its branches become tender and it produces
leaves, you know that summer is near. In the same way, when you see all these
things, you will know that he is near, right at the door. Truly I tell you,
this generation will not disappear until these things happen. “
The ALT puts it this way.
"Now learn the allegory from the fig tree:
whenever its branch already becomes tender, and it is putting forth the leaves,
you* know that the summer [is] near. "In this way also _you*_,
whenever you* see all these [things],
you* know that it is near-at [the]
doors! "Positively, I say to you*, this generation shall by no means pass
away until all these [things] happen.
Jesus is using
the fig tree or trees as an example. He is telling the audience
that they know when summer is close because the tree(s) is (are) growing
leaves. He then compares it to all of the things he was talking about in the
preceding verses were about to come true and that the time was near or right at
the door. Then Jesus gives a time-frame when this will
happen. Jesus says nothing about the leaves being
Needless
to say, “1948 generation” advocates prefer to cite MATTHEW’S VERSION of the fig
tree parable, which only mentions the fig tree and not “all the trees”.
Those
who cite the fig tree parable to support a Dispensational bent on Bible
prophecy claim that, in the next verse, the stated timeframe restriction for
its fulfillment - “this generation” - is “the generation that saw
“In my grandfather’s day,
it took a day to cross the desert during the day”. I use the same word in
English three times, with three different meanings. The first day refers to a
period of time when my grandfather was a boy, the second refers to a 24 hour period of time and the third refers to the period of
time in which we have daylight. When Jesus Christ refers to this and that
“generation”, we need to make sure we are examining the passage for the correct
context. Obviously, the generation Jesus refers to in regard
to the Pharisees and those who would put Him to death, could not be 2000
years after the resurrection. But the events He spoke
of in regard to the last days could be!
The problem we have here is the
lack of communication between the speaker and the audience. How did the
audience understand Jesus? Where they confused saying to themselves, “He keeps
saying “this generation” which one is he talking about, ours or someone’s in
the future, which you believe to be 2000 years and still counting. Was Jesus
confused in His speaking? He being God in the flesh, was Jesus unable to get
the correct point across? Not only the people that
Jesus spoke to, but also the disciple’s teachings must have also misunderstood.
The disciples taught the same thing that Jesus taught them. Three questions need to be answered
to understand this verse:
Who is Jesus talking to?
Who is the "you"? It
is Jesus' first century disciples, He is answering
their questions.
What exactly does "generation" mean?
What does the "all these things" refer to? ?" It refers to everything He has been talking about
since verse 4. Jesus told them a number of things that would happen before the
end came; the gospel would be preached to the entire
world: Did this happen? The Bible says, Yes.
(Col. 1:23)
Did Jesus speak in a language the people (Jews) could
understand? If the people misunderstood His teaching about His coming again,
why didn’t He tell them that He was taking about
something that would not happen 1000’s of years in the future? Why did God tell Daniel to seal up (Daniel 12:4, 9) Please note
that in verse 9, it says, “until time of the end) NOT the “end of time”.
There is a difference. Remember that if
Daniel has not been fulfilled, by Jesus’s
own words, we should be living under the Old Covenant or the Law of Moses. If
this has not been fulfilled then Jesus lied. Can God
lie? (Hebrew 6:18)
The
words “all these things” included the Lord’s Second Coming and the end of the
age, in conjunction with the
No. The reference to all
these things is to
Matthew 24:30
And then shall appear the sign
of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn,
and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and
great glory.
When Jesus said that
"all these things" would occur before that generation was over, He
was talking about everything that He had been discussing from verse 4 through
verse 33. This included the second coming of the Lord Jesus Christ in power and
glory. The disciples' question had been when will your Parousia be, and in
verse 34, He tells them it will happen in their generation.
You quote
Matthew 24:30. Let’s take a
look at this.
Jesus told Caiaphas,
"You will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Power."
He said to His disciples, "They would see the sign that the son of man was
in heaven." He told Caiaphas, "You will see
the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven." He told His disciples,
"They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power
and great glory." It is obviously the same event in both passages. Notice Caiaphas' response to Jesus' statement in Matthew 26:65, “Then the high priest tore his
clothes, saying, "He has spoken blasphemy! What further need do we have of
witnesses? Look, now you have heard His blasphemy! “
What did Jesus say that was blasphemy? Caiaphas
understood that Jesus was claiming to be the Messiah. In order to understand
what Jesus is saying, we need to understand the idea that is behind
"coming in the clouds." God's "coming on the clouds of heaven" is
a symbolic way of speaking of His presence,
judgment and salvation. All through the Old Testament God was coming
"on clouds," in salvation of His people and judgment of His enemies. Did Caiaphas
understand this to be taken literally? Why do you take
this literally?
You state, ”The reference to all these things is to
You want to see with your physical
eyes things that can’t be seen. You want to hear with
physical ears things that can’t be heard. You are
taking scripture out of context.
Sadly,
Futuristic eschatology, at best, puts the fulfillment of “some” things in the
first century, while other things are to be fulfilled thousands of years
removed from that time. But what right does anyone
have to change what Jesus said twice about in the space of ten verses, that is,
the fact that “all” would be fulfilled before that generation had passed
away? The TRUTH is, we have no option but to simply accept what Jesus
said and begin adjusting our understanding of all else accordingly.
Unfortunately, modern teachers keep adjusting the clear timeframe Jesus gave to
accommodate false notions about the nature of the kingdom. Church, that
ought not to be!
Let’s face this too - NO MAN wants to get a crazy look from his kids,
especially kids that are old enough to have already had a futuristic
interpretation of the Second Coming of Christ ingrained into their minds.
But we have no choice short of not saying anything at
all. The result of not telling them the truth is IGNORANCE and all that
curtails from it. That includes a lot of silliness, unrealistic
expectations, and, ultimately, disillusionment.
Telling
our kids the Preteristic truth about Bible prophecy
also equips them with a tremendous apologetic for the Christian faith.
The Skeptics constantly use “the non-return” against the deity of Jesus and the
inspiration of the Bible. Jesus didn’t return
WHEN he said he would, therefore he was a false prophet and the Bible is
uninspired, so the Skeptics say. Telling our kids
the truth - that all was fulfilled within the first century parameters of “this
generation” - gives them the only rock-solid refutation of the “non-return”
accusation against Christianity.
We
MUST tell our kids the truth.
Just one thought. I would
rather be right about Jesus’ coming again, and to not be ashamed, than to have
taught that Jesus wasn’t coming back and have to face Him, knowing that I not
only let myself down, but also my children. How sad.
I agree. Let Scripture interpret scripture. It can be done by putting scripture into context and into the correct time frame when the first words were first spoken. The letters we call the books) were written to first century people not to us 2000 years in the future. The Bible is for us. It helps us to understand who God is and what His plan was all about. There are words and phrases that only a Jew living at that time can understand. Today, one has to put themselves into that environment and imagine the man who was called Jesus and when spoke the words, “this generation” He was talking about the people living at that moment of time not 2000 years in the future. Why did Jesus correct their misunderstanding instead believing in a lie? There were people that die for their faith in the coming of Christ in the first century. Was there death in vain? The apostles believed it and taught it. Were they confused? They believe that the Jesus' coming was near, at hand, at the door, the last hour. If Jesus mislead the disciples in Matthew 24, they why did Jesus allow the to teach error over the next 40 years. People in the first Century had commitment and convection. We should have that same type of comment to God. He has kept all of His promises and has fulfilled ALL of the prophecies in the scriptures. Not 1 is left undone. "IT IS FINISH !!" If that is not the case, then Jesus lied.
Parents are to
teach their children the truth, (Eph. 6:4
as of 2-2007