What Kind Of “God” Do We Know?
Richard K. McPherson
Is the Bible the inspired Word of God? Everyone would say a big “YES !!” and then quote 2 Timothy 3:16:
“All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.”
If that is the case, why do people teach just the opposite of what it says? In this short article, I will point some very serious beliefs and the consequences of those beliefs. I am NOT judging the people that are named. I am sure they have a very sincere heart toward God and their relationship with Him. That is between them and God. I know I will not get any feed back from the names mention and that is o.k. too. R.C. Sproul’s comments about James Stuart Russell’s book, “The Parousia” put it this way and I agree with him fully.
“I believe that Russell’s work is one of the most important treatments of Biblical eschatology that is available in the church today. The issues raised in this volume with respect to the time-frame references of the New Testament to the Parousia are vitally important not only for eschatology, but for the future debate over the credibility of Sacred Scripture.”(emph.. RKM)
"Personally, I cringe at the idea of going against such a unified and strong testimony to the historic faith; even though I grant the possibility that they [the historic creeds] are wrong at points. All who are inclined to differ with the creeds should observe a warning light and show great caution. Of course this warning light pales in comparison to the authority of Scripture itself .... To be completely candid, I must confess that I am still unsettled on some crucial matters." (Last Days, pp. 157-158)
"Obviously the full Preterists have no desire to deviate from Scripture. They bear the burden in this controversy of showing that creedal orthodoxy has been wrong at crucial points of eschatological understanding." The Last Days According to Jesus, RC Sproul, pp.156-157)
"Russell's book has forced me to take the events surrounding the destruction of Jerusalem far more seriously than before, to open my eyes to the radical significance of this event in redemptive history. It vindicates the apostolic hope and prediction of our Lord's close-at-hand coming in judgment. My view on these matters remains in transition, as I have spelled out in The Last Days According to Jesus. But for me one thing is certain: I can never read the New Testament again the same way I read it before reading The Parousia. I hope better scholars than I will continue to analyze and evaluate the content of J. Stuart Russell's important work." ("Forward," in The Parousia (Grand Rapids, MI: Baker Books, 1999)
When it comes right down to it, it is not whether you are a Full or Partial Preterist or a Futurist. It comes down to, do you believe what God says or not? If it is in the Bible and if “All Scripture is God-breathed..”, then it has to be true no matter who says it. There are people that use scripture out of context and twist them every which way and that is just as bad. Why don’t we let God speak for Himself. Don’t take Max King or Ed Stevens, John Noe or myself or others word for it. Find it out for yourself. Let scripture interpret scripture.
After reading the article on “The Rapture” by Arthur Melanson and books about eschatology, I have often wondered what kind of God, Futurists and Partial Preterist believe in. I have noticed that they quote scripture left and right in trying to prove their point and at the same time paint a picture of a God that is forgetful, all powerful but unable to do what He had in mind, answer questions that were not asked and a God that says one thing and does another. To me, this sounds like a person I would not worship or give my life, my all, too.
CASE 1: Matthew 24-25
I was wondering through Wal-Mart (the place that gets what’s left from my check) and noticed Tim LaHaye’s Bible. I flip it over to Matthew 24 and wanted to see what he had to say. He gives Matthew 24:1-3 to 70 AD and verses 4 to 25:46 to sometime in the future. It sounds real clear that the disciples ask Jesus (God) questions (70 AD) and Jesus (God) answered them with some off the wall answer (2000 + years in the future). What was wrong with Jesus? Did he hear and not understand what his disciples were asking? According to Mr. LaHaye, Chuck Smith and others, “No”.
Let’s look at the text and questions: Matthew 24:1-3
“Jesus left the temple and was walking away when his disciples came up to him to call his attention to its building. “Do you see all these thing?” (What things were the disciples talking about) he asked. “I tell you the truth, not one stone here will be left on another, every one will be thrown down.” As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. “Tell us,” they said, “when will this happen, and what will be the sign of you coming and of the end of the age?”
Let’s look at this text in other translations:
Matthew 24:3
(ALT) Then as He is sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples approached Him privately, saying, "Tell us when these [things] will be? And what [is] the sign of Your Arrival and of the conclusion of the age?"
(ASV) And as he sat on the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
(BBE) And while he was seated on the Mountain of Olives, the disciples came to him privately, saying, Make clear to us, when will these things be? and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the world?
(CEV) Later, as Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, his disciples came to him in private and asked, "When will this happen? What will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the world?"
(ISV) While Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately and said, "Tell us, when will these things take place, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?"
(KJV+) And1161 as he846 sat2521 upon1909 the3588 mount3735 of Olives,1636 the3588 disciples3101 came4334 unto him846 privately,2596, 2396 saying,3004 Tell2036 us,2254 when4129 shall these things5023 be?2071 and2432 what5101 shall be the3588 sign4592 of thy4674 coming,3952 (παρουσία Parousia) (and2532 of the3588 end4930 of the3588 world?165 G165 αἰών aiōn (ahee-ohn')
From the same as G104; properly an age; by extension perpetuity (also past); by implication the world; specifically (Jewish) a Messianic period (present or future): - age, course, eternal, (for) ever (-more), [n-]ever, (beginning of the, while the) world (began, without end). Compare G5550.
(YLT) And when he is sitting on the mount of the Olives, the disciples came near to him by himself, saying, `Tell us, when shall these be? and what is the sign of thy presence, and of the full end of the age?'(emph..RKM)
The Parousia is associated with Jesus’ Second coming. All will agree with this. Jesus KNEW what they were talking about and he answered them completely.
Notice that Jesus and his disciples are talking and they understood each other. Later the disciples came to Jesus again and asked Jesus some questions about the comments that he made. According to Mr. LaHaye, Jesus did not answer those questions, but instead answered questions that were not even asked.
Let’s look at Chuck Smith and what he believes verse by verse:
CHAPTER 24: SIGNS OF HIS COMING
v. 2 This prophecy was fulfilled in forty years from the time Jesus spoke it. (Comments RKM: Let’s do some math 30 + 40 = 70. Was Jesus wrong? According to you (Mr. Smith) in verse 34, he was. Jesus lied and if that is true then Hebrews 6:18 is a lie. Mr. Smith your comments contradict with what you said in verse 34.)
v. 3-6 Jesus began to describe the world scene that would precede His Second Coming. (Comments RKM: Mr. Smith, you state that verse 2 will take place 40 years from the time Jesus spoke these words and you also state that He is talking about His Second Coming. 30 + 40 still = 70)
v. 7 This verse indicates world-wide war.
v. 9 Read Fox's Book of Martyrs for background information on Christian persecution. (Comments RKM: Why not read Josephus? He was there and saw it first hand.)
v. 14 In Revelation 14:6-7 an angel preaches the gospel to the entire world in every language. (Comments RKM: According to the Bible, Mr. Smith this happened just before 70 AD. Read Colossians 1:23, Romans 1:8,10:18)
v. 15 Daniel 9:27, 11:31 and 12:11 are referred to in this verse. (Comments RKM: Will talk about this later.)
v. 16-20 This chapter is addressed to the Jews who will once more be God's elect nation, since the Church will be taken out by the time these come to pass (Ezekiel 39:23-29). The applications to Israel are obvious: Judea is named, people are on their housetops, and they will be concerned about breaking the law of the Sabbath. (Comments RKM: What does standing on housetops and breaking the Sabbath has to do with Jesus’ coming? Are you saying that Jesus’ death on the cross had no effect on the Law of Moses and after Jesus returns, we would be going back to something that Jesus supposedly fulfilled?
v. 21 Revelation Chapters 6-19 have the details of the Tribulation.
v. 22 Once again, the elect is the nation of Israel since we'll be with Christ. (Comments RKM: You dwell on the people that are living in Israel today, what about the Christians around the world. If physical Israel is the “elect” where does that leave you?)
v. 24 We have seen a proliferation of false cults in recent years. (Comments RKM: Why don’t you tell the truth? According to your beliefs, for the past 2000 years not “recent” years.)
v. 28 The word "eagles" here should be "vultures". The birds will feast on the corpses from the battle of Armageddon.
v. 30 The people will mourn because they stubbornly rejected Jesus. The Jews will be especially sad that they did not recognize their Messiah.
v. 32 The nation Israel is referred to symbolically as a fig tree (Jeremiah 24; Hosea 9:10; Job 1:7)
v. 34 The generation that sees Israel bud forth and become a nation again is the generation mentioned here. (Comments RKM: 1948 + 40 = 1988. There seems to be a conflict with this verse and verse 2. Mr. Smith the year is 2003 and you still believe in something that has come and gone. I was born in 1961 and I am 41 and it is still not happen.)
v. 40-41 Some feel these verses refer to the Rapture of the Church; others feel they refer to people being taken away to judgment. (Comments RKM: Mr. Smith, why don’t you take the $10,000 Challenge?)
v. 46 We should be doing what the Lord called us to do and wants us to do when He comes for us. (Comments RKM: You just got though saying that Jesus is coming back for the “elect” (the nation of Israel) and we are not in the nation of Israel, so Jesus is NOT coming back for us.)
v. 48 This philosophy is similar to those who believe the Christians will go through all or part of the Tribulation, for it produces slovenliness.
Jack Van Impe gives all of Matthew 24 and 25 to the future. One can watch his program and listen to the far out examples in trying to explain that we are living in Matthew 24 today. He even puts the explosion of the Columbia and the problems in Iraq are all part of Matthew 24.
There are even others that put the Presidential election of 2000 in the Bible.
Case 1a: Matthew 24:14
(ALT) "And this Gospel of the kingdom will be proclaimed in the whole inhabited earth for a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come.
(ASV) And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world for a testimony unto all the nations; and then shall the end come.
(BBE) And this good news of the kingdom will be given through all the world for a witness to all nations; and then the end will come.
(CEV) When the good news about the kingdom has been preached all over the world and told to all nations, the end will come.
(ISV) And this gospel of the kingdom will be proclaimed throughout the world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come."
(KJV+) And2532 this5124 gospel2098 of the3588 kingdom932 shall be preached2784 in1722 all3650 the3588 world3625 (G3625 οἰκουμένη oikoumene) for1519 a witness3142 unto all3956 nations;1484 and2532 then5119 shall the3588 end5056 come.2240
Feminine participle present passive of G3611 (as noun, by implication of G1093); land, that is, the (terrene part of the) globe; specifically the Roman empire: - earth, world.
(YLT) and this good news of the reign shall be proclaimed in the entire world, for a testimony to all the nations; and then shall the end arrive.
Why do people believe that the “gospel” has NOT been preached throughout the world? What does the Bible say about this? Jack Van Impe, Tim LaHaye and others will say that it has not. There are TV shows asking for money so it can be done. Will all I have to say is, “It already has happen.
Colossians 1:23
(ALT) since indeed you* are continuing in the faith, having been firmly established and steadfast, and are not being shifted away from the hope [or, confident expectation] of the Gospel which you* heard, the one having been preached in all the creation under heaven, of which _I_, Paul, became a servant.
(ASV) if so be that ye continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel which ye heard, which was preached in all creation under heaven; whereof I Paul was made a minister.
(BBE) If you keep yourselves safely based in the faith, not moved from the hope of the good news which came to you, and which was given to every living being under heaven; of which I, Paul, was made a servant.
(CEV) But you must stay deeply rooted and firm in your faith. You must not give up the hope you received when you heard the good news. It was preached to everyone on earth, and I myself have become a servant of this message.
(ISV) However, you must remain firmly established and steadfast in the faith, without being moved from the hope of the gospel that you heard, which has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven and of which I, Paul, have become a servant.
(KJV+) If1489 ye continue1961 in the3588 faith4102 grounded2311 and2532 settled,1476 and2532 be not3361 moved away3334 from575 the3588 hope1680 of the3588 gospel,2098 which3739 ye have heard,191 and which was preached2784 to1722 every3956 creature2937 which3588 is under5259 heaven;3772 whereof3739 I1473 Paul3972 am made1096 a minister;1249
(YLT) if also ye remain in the faith, being founded and settled, and not moved away from the hope of the good news, which ye heard, which was preached in all the creation that is under the heaven, of which I became--I Paul--a ministrant.
Romans 1:8
(ALT) First indeed I thank my God through Jesus Christ for all of you*, that your* faith is being proclaimed in the whole world.
(ASV) First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is proclaimed throughout the whole world.
(BBE) First of all, I give praise to my God through Jesus Christ for you all, because news of your faith has gone into all the world.
(CEV) First, I thank God in the name of Jesus Christ for all of you. I do this because people everywhere in the world are talking about your faith.
(ISV) First of all, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for all of you, because the news about your faith is being reported throughout the world.
(KJV+) First,4412 I(3303) thank2168 my3450 God2316 through1223 Jesus2424 Christ5547 for5228 you5216 all,3956 that3754 your5216 faith4102 is spoken of2605, 1722 throughout the3588 whole3650 world.2889 G2889 κόσμος kosmos
(YLT) first, indeed, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is proclaimed in the whole world;
What about Romans 10:18?
(ALT) _But_ I say, did they never at all hear? On the contrary, "Their voice went out to all the earth, and their words to the ends of the inhabited earth." [Psalm 19:4]
(ASV) But I say, Did they not hear? Yea, verily, Their sound went out into all the earth, And their words unto the ends of the world.
(BBE) But I say, Did not the word come to their ears? Yes, certainly: Their sound has gone out into all the earth, and their words to the ends of the world.
(CEV) But am I saying that the people of Israel did not hear? No, I am not! The Scriptures say, "The message was told everywhere on earth. It was announced all over the world."
(ISV) But I ask, "Didn't they hear?" Certainly they did! In fact, "Their voice has gone out into the whole world, and their words to the ends of the earth."
Greek word "All": (G3956 πᾶς pas Including all the forms of declension; apparently a primary word; all, any, every, the whole: - all (manner of, means) alway (-s), any (one), X daily, + ever, every (one, way), as many as, + no (-thing), X throughly, whatsoever, whole, whosoever.
(YLT) but I say, Did they not hear? yes, indeed--`to all the earth their voice went forth, and to the ends of the habitable world their sayings.'
This is taken from Psalms 19:4. Did this prophecy come true or not? Don’t forget that Jesus said, “I came not to destroy, but to fulfilled.” Matthew 5:17. If Jesus failed to fulfill one prophecy about Him, then He was really just a man and not God in the flesh and who can trust anything that He said. To make matter worst, God the Father would have failed also for being unable to do something and that alone would not make Him Almighty and All-powerful. Would you put your life in a “god” that is unable to do something or in a God that means what He says and says what He means?
Why believe anything else? Either this happen or it didn’t. There is no in between. Jesus is talking to the disciples in Mark 16:15:
(ALT) And He said to them, "Having gone [or, Go] into all the world, proclaim the Gospel to all the creation
(ASV) And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to the whole creation.
(BBE) And he said to them, Go into all the world, and give the good news to everyone.
(CEV) Then he told them: Go and preach the good news to everyone in the world.
(ISV) Then he said to them, "As you go into all the world, proclaim the gospel to the whole creation.
(KJV+) And2532 he said2036 unto them,846 Go4198 ye into1519 all537 the3588 world,2889 (G2889 κόσμος kosmos) and preach2784 the3588 gospel2098 to every3956 creature.2937
Probably from the base of G2865; orderly arrangement, that is, decoration; by implication the world (in a wide or narrow sense, including its inhabitants, literally or figuratively [morally]): - adorning, world.
(YLT) and he said to them, `Having gone to all the world, proclaim the good news to all the creation;
Did Jesus’ disciples do this? Yes, they did. Colossians 1:23 says so. “THEN THE END WILL COME” and it did. To say other wise, you are calling the Holy Spirit (God) a liar. You are calling Paul a liar. There is NO double fulfillment. If you believe that there is a double fulfillment, then you have Jesus coming a third time. Please show me, where in the Scriptures that Jesus talks about His third coming?
Case 1b: Matthew 24:15
(ALT) "Therefore, when you* see the 'abomination of the desolation' [or, the 'detestable thing that causes desecration'], the one having been spoken [of] through Daniel the prophet, having stood in the holy place (the one reading, let him be understanding [or, be paying attention]), [Dan 8:13; 9:27; 12:11]
(ASV) When therefore ye see the abomination of desolation, which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let him that readeth understand),
(BBE) When, then, you see in the holy place the unclean thing which makes destruction, of which word was given by Daniel the prophet let this be clear to the reader,
(CEV) Someday you will see that "Horrible Thing" in the holy place, just as the prophet Daniel said. Everyone who reads this must try to understand!
(ISV) "So when you see the destructive desecration, mentioned by the prophet Daniel, standing in the Holy Place (let the reader take note),
(KJV+) When3752 ye therefore3767 shall see1492 the3588 abomination946 of desolation,2050 spoken4483 of by1223 Daniel1158 the3588 prophet,4396 stand2476 in1722 the holy40 place,5117 (whoso readeth,314 let him understand:)3539
(YLT) `Whenever, therefore, ye may see the abomination of the desolation, that was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (whoever is reading let him observe)
Loot at Thomas Ice and what he believes.
If you haven’t heard the debate between Thomas Ice and Don Preston, please do so. Thomas Ice states that Daniel 9:24-27 supports a gap and that Daniel knew there was a gap between the 69th and 70th week. He also believes that Jesus did not know about the gap when He quoted Daniel. Daniel knew about and not Jesus. God the Father must have forgotten to tell Jesus about this little gap. Not only that, Jesus lied to His disciples and to the people when He taught to about the “Kingdom of God” being “near” or “at hand”. If Jesus lied about this, what other things did He lie about?
Partial Preterist and Futurist keep taking about the “Church Fathers”. Let’s see what some them have to say about this. Even with these facts, they still refuse to believe.
St. Athanasius
(296-372)
"And when He Who spake
unto Moses, the Word of the Father, appeared in the end of the world, He also
gave this commandment, saying, "But when they persecute you in this city,
flee ye into another" [Matthew 10:23]; and shortly after He says,
"When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by
Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place (whoso readeth,
let him understand); then let them which be in Judea flee into the mountains:
let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his
house: neither let him which is in the field return back to take his
clothes" [Matthew 24:15]. Knowing
these things, the Saints regulated their conduct accordingly."(Defense
of His Flight [11])
Augustine (379)
"Luke to show that the abomination spoken of by Daniel will take place
when Jerusalem is captured, recalls these words of the Lord in the same
context: When you shall see Jerusalem
compassed about with an army, then know that the desolation
thereof is at hand (xxi. 20). For Luke very clearly bears witness that the
prophecy of Daniel was fulfilled when Jerusalem was overthrown." (vol. 6, p.
170)
Chrysostom (379)
"For this it seems to me that the
abomination of desolation means the army by which the holy city
of Jerusalem was made desolate." (The Ante-Nicene Fath)rs)
"Or because he who had desolated the city and the temple, placed his statue within the temple." (The Ante-Nicene Fathers)
For He brought in also a prophecy, to confirm their desolation, saying, "But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place, let him that readeth understand."(12) He referred them to Daniel. And by" abomination" He meaneth the statue of him who then took the city, which he who desolated the city and the temple placed within the temple, wherefore Christ calleth it, "of desolation." Moreover, in order that they might learn that these things will be while some of them are alive, therefore He said, "When ye see the abomination of desolation." (Of Matthew 24:1,2)
"And see how He relates the war, by the things that seem to be small setting forth how intolerable it was to be. For, "Then," saith He, "let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains." Then, When? When these things should be, "when the abomination of desolation should stand in the holy place." Whence He seems to me to be speaking of the armies." (Homily 76, Number 1)
John Gill (1809)
"Ver. 15. When ye therefore shall
see the abomination of desolation, &c.]
From signs, Christ proceeds to the immediate cause of the destruction of
Jerusalem; which was, "the abomination of desolation", or the
desolating abomination; or that abominable thing, which threatened and brought
desolation upon the city, temple, and nation: by which is meant, not any statue
placed in the temple by the Romans, or their order; not the golden eagle which
Herod set upon the temple gate, for that was before Christ said these words;
nor the image of Tiberius Caesar, which Pilate is said to bring into the
temple; for this, if true, must be about this time; whereas Christ cannot be
thought to refer to anything so near at hand; much less the statue of Adrian,
set in the most holy place, which was an hundred and thirty years and upwards,
after the destruction of the city and temple; nor the statue of Titus, who
destroyed both, which does not appear: ever to be set up, or attempted; nor of
Caligula, which, though ordered, was prevented being placed there: but the
Roman army is designed; see #Luke 21:20 which was the ~mfm ~ycwqf @nk, "the wing",
or "army of abominations making desolate", #Daniel 9:27. Armies are
called wings, #Isaiah 8:8 and the Roman armies were desolating ones to the Jews, and
to whom they were an abomination; not only because they consisted of Heathen
men, and uncircumcised persons, but chiefly because of the images of their
gods, which were upon their ensigns: for images and idols were always an
abomination to them; so the "filthiness" which Hezekiah ordered to be
carried out of the holy place, #2Ch 29:5 is by the Targum called, aqwxyr, "an abomination"; and this, by the Jewish
writers {w}, is said to be an idol, which Ahaz had
placed upon the altar; and such was the abomination of desolation, which
Antiochus caused to be set upon the altar:
``Now the fifteenth day of the month Casleu, in the hundred forty and fifth year, they set up the abomination of desolation upon the altar, and builded idol altars throughout the cities of Juda on every side;'' (1 Maccabees 1:54)
And so the Talmudic writers, by the abomination that makes desolate, in #Daniel 12:11 9:27 to which Christ here refers, understand an image, which they say {x} one Apostomus, a Grecian general, who burnt their law, set up in the temple. Now our Lord observes, that when they should see the Roman armies encompassing Jerusalem, with their ensigns flying, and these abominations on them, they might conclude its desolation was near at hand; and he does not so much mean his apostles, who would be most of them dead, or in other countries, when this would come to pass; but any of his disciples and followers, or any persons whatever, by whom should be seen this desolating abomination,
spoken of by Daniel the prophet: not in #Daniel 11:31 which is spoken of the abomination in the times of Antiochus; but either in #Daniel 12:11 or rather in #Daniel 9:27 since this desolating abomination is that, which should follow the cutting off of the Messiah, and the ceasing of the daily sacrifice. It is to be observed, that Daniel is here called a prophet, contrary to what the Jewish writers say {y}, who deny him to be one; though one of {z} no inconsiderable note among them affirms, that he attained to the end, yyawbnh lwbgh, "of the prophetic border", or the ultimate degree of prophecy: when therefore this that Daniel, under a spirit of prophecy, spoke of should be seen, standing in the holy place; near the walls, and round about the holy city Jerusalem, so called from the sanctuary and worship of God in it; and which, in process of time, stood in the midst of it, and in the holy temple, and destroyed both; then whoso readeth, let him understand: that is, whoever then reads the prophecy of Daniel; will easily understand the meaning of it, and will see and know for certain, that now it is accomplished; and will consider how to escape the desolating judgment, unless he is given up to a judicial blindness and hardness of heart; which was the case of the greater part of the nation.
{w} R. David Kimchi, & R. Sol. ben Melech, in 2 Chron. xxix. 5.
{x} T. Bab. Taanith, fol.
28. 2. & Gloss. in ib.
{y} T. Bab. Sanhedrin, fol. 94. 1. & Megilla, fol. 3. 1. & Tzeror
Ham, mor, fol. 46. 4. Zohar
in Num. fol. 61. 1.
{z} Jacchiades in Dan. i.
17. (in loc.)
Clement of Alexandria (Second Century)
"For he said that there were two thousand three hundred days from the time
that the abomination of Nero stood in the holy city, till its destruction...
These two thousand three hundred days make six years four months, during the
half of which Nero held sway" (The
Ante-Nicene Fathers, vol. 2, p. 334)
Eusebius Pamphilius (325)
"But the number of calamities which every where fell upon the nation at
that time; the extreme misfortunes to which the inhabitants of Judea were especially
subjected, the thousands of men, as well as women and children, that perished
by the sword, by famine, and by other forms of death innumerable,--all these
things, as well as the many great sieges which were carried on against the
cities of Judea, and the excessive. sufferings endured by those that fled to
Jerusalem itself, as to a city of perfect safety, and finally the general
course of the whole war, as well as its particular occurrences in detail, and
how at last the abomination of
desolation, proclaimed by the prophets, stood in the very temple of God,
so celebrated of old, the temple which was now awaiting its total and final
destruction by fire,-- all these things any one that wishes may find accurately
described in the history written by Josephus." (Book
III, Ch.5)
Case 1c: Matthew 24:34
Let’s first look at seven translations of this verse.
(ALT) "Positively, I say to you*(Who was Jesus taken to?), this generation shall by no means pass away until all these [things] happen.
(ASV) Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all these things be accomplished.
(BBE) Truly I say to you, This generation will not come to an end till all these things are complete.
(CEV) I can promise you that some of the people of this generation will still be alive when all this happens. (Comments RKM: You can’t get plainer that this. Jesus used words that people understood.)
(ISV) Truly I tell you, this generation will not disappear until these things happen.
(KJV+) Verily281 I say3004 unto you,5213 This3778 generation1074 shall not3364 pass,3928 till2193, 302 all3956 these things5023 be fulfilled.1096
(YLT) Verily I say to you, this generation may not pass away till all these may come to pass.
According to Jack Van Impe, he states that the generation that is around that sees all of the things happening in verses 4-33 is the chosen generation. I would like to ask him, when did you start counting for the “generation” Mr. Impe? You claim in knowing scripture from memory, big deal. Knowing scripture means nothing without knowing God and keeping His Word in context. Mr. Van Impe look at the text in context. Imagine yourself with the disciples and Jesus utter these words, “I tell you the truth, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.” What would you be thinking? You would be thinking all of the things that Jesus talked about would happen during the “present generation” 30-70 AD. I really doubt that the disciples where thinking, “We have nothing to worry about, because this is not going to happen until 2000 years from now”. They took Jesus at his word and we should to. If it didn’t come true, Jesus lied again and He misled everyone.
Tim LaHaye. Chuck Smith and other say that “generation” should be rendered “race” Please read to following articles by: Donald Hochner and Todd Dennis . I am not going to go into detail when both articles hits the nail on the head. By the way, Mr. LaHaye, Mr. Smith and others there is NO Jewish Race today. Just because a person is born in Israel does not make the person a Jew. There is no proof in any form or fashion to prove they are part of the tribe of Israel. Read “Is There a Jewish 'Race' Today” by Todd Dennis. There are NO Jews today. After the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD, the “Jews” scattered to other places and they married other people and the Jewish race died.
CASE 1d: Problems in splitting Matthew 24
.,
Everyone has seen the above chart and has read the article “But What Will They Do With Luke 17?” by Jack Scott. Tell me; is Jesus (God) a person of order or confusion? There is an article that tries to prove that Jesus is talking about two different comings. How can Jesus be talking about 70 AD in one verse and in the very next verse be talking about a future coming then goes back to 70 AD for one sentence, then back to a future coming. That sounds like a person that is unstable and confused. When the disciples heard Jesus’ words from Luke 17 and Matthew 24, did they understood Him? The phrases used by Jesus were words that everyone that heard Him could understand. The words had one meaning and one meaning only, not two or three. When the disciples heard Jesus speak in Luke 17 and Matthew 24, they knew what He was talking about. The same phases and words were used. Please remember; when Jesus spoke those words there were no verse division. It was just a long dialog between Jesus and the disciples. How would sound like if you take away the verses out and just have Matthew 24 with no verses. It would look something like this.
Matthew 24 “As Jesus left the temple and was walking away, his disciples came up to him to point out to him the temple buildings. But he said to them, "You see all these things, don't you? Truly I tell you, not one stone here will be left on another that will not be torn down." While Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately and said, "Tell us, when will these things take place, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?" Jesus answered them, "See to it that no one deceives you. For many will come in my name and say, 'I am the Christ,' and they will deceive many people. You are going to hear of wars and rumors of wars. See to it that you are not alarmed. These things must take place, but the end hasn't come yet. For nation will rise up in arms against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. But all these things are only the beginning of the birth pains. Then they will hand you over to suffering and will kill you, and you will be hated by all the nations because of my name. Then many people will fall by the way and will betray one another and hate one another. Many false prophets will appear and deceive many people, and because lawlessness will increase, the love of many people will grow cold. But the person who endures to the end will be saved. And this gospel of the kingdom will be proclaimed throughout the world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come. So when you see the destructive desecration, mentioned by the prophet Daniel, standing in the Holy Place then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains. The person who is on the housetop must not come down to get what is in his house, and the person who is in the field must not turn back to get his coat. How terrible it will be for women who are pregnant or who are nursing babies in those days! Pray that it may not be in winter or on a Sabbath when you flee. For at that time there will be great suffering, the kind that has not happened from the beginning of the world until now and certainly will never happen again. If those days had not been limited, no life would be saved. But for the sake of the elect, those days will be limited. At that time, if anyone says to you, 'Look! Here is the Christ!' or 'There he is!', don't believe it. For false christs and false prophets will appear and display great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. Remember, I have told you this beforehand. So if they say to you, 'Look! He's in the wilderness,' don't go out looking for him. And if they say, 'Look! He's in the storeroom,' don't believe it. For just as the lightning comes from the east and flashes as far as the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. Wherever there's a body, there the vultures will gather. Immediately after the suffering of those days, 'The sun will be darkened, the moon will not give its light, the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of heaven will be shaken loose.' Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the tribes of the earth will mourn when they see 'the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven' with power and great glory. He will send out his angels with a loud trumpet blast, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to another. Now learn a lesson from the fig tree. When its branches become tender and it produces leaves, you know that summer is near. In the same way, when you see all these things, you will know that he is near, right at the door. Truly I tell you, this generation will not disappear until these things happen. Heaven and earth will disappear, but my words will never disappear. No one knows when that day or hour will come-not the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. For just as it was in the days of Noah, so it will be when the Son of Man comes. In those days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage right up to the day when Noah went into the ark. They were unaware of what was happening until the flood came and swept all of them away. That's how it will be when the Son of Man comes. At that time two people will be in the field. One will be taken, and the other will be left behind. Two women will be grinding grain at the mill. One will be taken, and the other will be left behind. So keep on watching, because you don't know on what day your Lord is coming. But be sure of this: if the owner of the house had known at what watch of the night the thief was coming, he would have stayed awake and not allowed his house to be broken into. So you, too, must be ready, because at an hour you are not expecting him the Son of Man will come. Who, then, is the faithful and wise servant whom his master has put in charge of his household to give the others their food at the right time? How blessed is that servant whom his master finds doing this when he comes! Truly I tell you, he will put him in charge of all his property. But if that wicked servant says to himself, 'My master has been delayed, and begins to beat his fellow servants and eat and drink with the drunks, the master of that servant will come on a day when he doesn't expect him and at an hour that he doesn't know. Then his master will punish him severely and assign him a place with the hypocrites. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.””
You take away the verses, you take away the division. Questions answered with one meaning. There is no double meaning involved. Who decides, which text meaning applied to them in the first century and to us? MAN !! It is MAN that has created over 400 different denominations all claiming they are the true Christians. There is no hidden code. It is about time for God and God alone to speak. The Bible is for us NOT to us.
How can one say that there is a third coming? Yes, Jesus came in 70ad, but He is coming again. How did the disciples know which coming Jesus is taking about if Jesus used the same language over and over again? The apostles used the same language that was taught to them by Jesus. Did Jesus’ words mean one thing and His disciples mean another? Is Jesus, God of order or confusion? Creeds and Statements of Faith changes over years, but we use SCRIPTURE ALONE that will never fade away and will never change. Let God speak for Himself. Acts 5:29 “But Peter and the apostles answered, "We must obey God rather than men.” Do people practice this? NO, because man has made the creeds and statements of faith are more HOLY that God Himself.
CASE 2: Matthew 5:17-18
(ALT) "Do not suppose that I came to tear down [fig., abolish] the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to tear down _but_ to fulfill. "For positively, I say to you*, until the heaven and the earth pass away, by no means shall one iota [i.e., the smallest letter of the Greek alphabet] or one tittle [i.e., a stroke of a letter] pass away from the Law, until all [things] happen.
(ASV) Think not that I came to destroy the law or the prophets: I came not to destroy, but to fulfill. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass away from the law, till all things be accomplished.
(BBE) Let there be no thought that I have come to put an end to the law or the prophets. I have not come for destruction, but to make complete. Truly I say to you, Till heaven and earth come to an end, not the smallest letter or part of a letter will in any way be taken from the law, till all things are done.
(CEV) Don't suppose that I came to do away with the Law and the Prophets. I did not come to do away with them, but to give them their full meaning. Heaven and earth may disappear. But I promise you that not even a period or comma will ever disappear from the Law. Everything written in it must happen
(ISV) "Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I didn't come to destroy them, but to fulfill them. For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not one letter or one stroke of a letter will disappear from the Law until everything has been accomplished.
(KJV+) Think3543 not3361 that3754 I am come2064 to destroy2647 the3588 law,3551 or2228 the3588 prophets:4396 I am not3756 come2064 to destroy,2647 but235 to fulfill.4137 For1063 verily281 I say3004 unto you,5213 Till2193 heaven3772 and2532 earth1093 pass,3928 one1520 jot2503 or2228 one3391 tittle2762 shall in no wise3364 pass3928 from575 the3588 law,3551 till2193 all3956 be fulfilled.1096
Greek lesson: destroy- G2647 Καταλύω kataluō kat-al-oo'-o
From G2596 and G3089; to loosen down (disintegrate), that is, (by implication) to demolish (literally or figuratively); specifically (compare G2646) to halt for the night: - destroy, dissolve, be guest, lodge, come to nought, overthrow, throw down.
(YLT) `Do not suppose that I came to throw down the law or the prophets--I did not come to throw down, but to fulfill; for, verily I say to you, till that the heaven and the earth may pass away, one iota or one tittle may not pass away from the law, till that all may come to pass.
Did Jesus do this or did He fail? If there is just one prophecy in the Bible (meaning Old and New Testament) that concerns Jesus and any way, then Jesus lied about this and failed. The text clearly states that the “law” of Moses will remain intact until “Heaven and earth pass away”. The problems come when people believe in something that the scriptures say just the opposite, for example: some believe that the “heavens and earth” has NOT pass away yet. With that belief the law is still here today and Jesus failed to fulfilled ALL prophesies about Him. And yes, there are prophesies that pertain to Jesus’ second coming. Thomas Ice, Chuck Smith, Billy Graham, Jack Van Impe, Tim LaHaye, Hal Lindsey and PP believes that not ALL of the prophesies are fulfilled. Are you (we) going to believe God or what someone says? Are we going to let God speak for himself or are we going to let man?
Why don’t people take this verse literal? Tim LaHaye, Chuck Smith, Hal Lindsey and others goes against their own rules. If they took this verse literal, then we would still be under the law. Hal Lindsey wants to go back to the old temple worship. That is what he is looking forward to. According to his belief, Jesus’ blood has lost its power. According to Mr. Lindsey, when Jesus returns, we will go back to some form of the old temple worship, back to the blood of bulls and goats. Even if Hebrews 10:4 says one thing he wants to believe another. What he is really saying is Jesus’ blood could not and did not do the job when it comes to sin, so let’s go back to animal sacrifices.
Another article to read is “The Law Is Fulfilled” by David Curtis.
CASE 3: Matthew 16:27-28
“For the Son of Man is about to (Mello) come in his Father’s glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what he has done, I tell you the truth , some who are sanding here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.”
Tim LaHaye, Chuck Smith and others teach the same thing. They say that this text is talking about what would happen a week later on the mount of Transfiguration (chapter 17). Here are some problems with this.
Jesus, (God in the flesh) thought that some his disciples would die within that week. Did anyone die? No! Where did the “Son of Man” go within that week? No where! Did the kingdom come a week later? A course not, they are still waiting for it after 2000 years! The text clearly states that some of Jesus disciples would not die until they see him come back with his kingdom. What is so hard with that? They are denying the creditably of scripture. Jesus meant what he said. They need to read the following article: “The Domino Effect of Matthew 16:27-28 by J.E. Gautier, Jr.
If R.C. Sproul and Gentry had to bite the bullet and had to change, because the proof was over whelming, then it is possible for others. Mr. Sproul even said this in one of his books:
"Obviously the full Preterist have no desire to deviate from Scripture. They bear the burden in this controversy of showing that creedal orthodoxy has been wrong at crucial points of eschatological understanding."(The Last Days According to Jesus, pp.156-157)
Is he saying that a Full Preterist has no desire to deviate from Scripture and Partial Preterist and Futurist have a desire to deviate from Scripture? Remember, you can’t have it both ways. He is living up to his statement at the beginning of this article.
As you can see, God is now a God that doesn’t even know what is going to happen in one week. He can create the world in seven days, but not know who is going to die in seven days. To top it off Jesus lied, because the “kingdom” did not come a week later like he said it would in verse 28. (For more on this, see my article “If Christ Has Not Come”.)
I ask again, “what kind of “God” do we know? A God that lies and absent minded or a God that means what he said. Don’t forget God cannot lie, Hebrews 6:18 “…in which it is impossible for God to lie…”. That is why Jesus can say “I tell you the truth..” and “ I am the way and the truth”.
Let’s look at this text in other translations:
Matthew 16:27-28
(ALT) "For the Son of Humanity is about to be coming in the glory of His Father, with His angels, and then He will reward each according to his work. ”Positively, I say to you*, [there] are some having stood here who will by no means taste of death until they see the Son of Humanity coming in His kingdom."
(ASV) For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then shall he render unto every man according to his deeds. Verily I say unto you, there are some of them that stand here, who shall in no wise taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.
(BBE) For the Son of man will come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he will give to every man the reward of his works. Truly I say to you, There are some of those here who will not have a taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.
(CEV) The Son of Man will soon come in the glory of his Father and with his angels to reward all people for what they have done. I promise you that some of those standing here will not die before they see the Son of Man coming with his kingdom.
(ISV) The Son of Man is going to come with his angels in his Father's glory, and then he will repay everyone according to what he has done. Truly I tell you, some people standing here will not experience death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom."
(KJV+) For1063 the3588 Son5207 of man444 shall3195 come2064 in1722 the3588 glory1391 of his848 Father3962 with3326 his848 angels;32 and2532 then5119 he shall reward591 every man1538 according2596 to his848 works.4234 Verily281 I say3004 unto you,5213 There be1526 some5100 standing2476 here,5602 which3748 shall not3664 taste1089 of death,2288 till2193, 302 they see1492 the3588 Son5207 of man444 coming2064 in1722 his848 kingdom.932
(YLT) `For, the Son of Man is about to come in the glory of his Father, with his messengers, and then he will reward each, according to his work. Verily I say to you, there are certain of those standing here who shall not taste of death till they may see the Son of Man coming in his reign.'
By playing with the literalists rules it means this. The kingdom has not come yet, then there is 2000 plus years old person still around. That is what they are saying by their beliefs. They are all talk. I do wonder what kind of God they know.
CASE 4: Revlation: Soon, Quickly, Near
Revelation 1:1
(ALT) [The] revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave to Him to show to His slaves what [things are] necessary to occur with quickness. And He made [it] known, having sent through His angel to His slave John,
(ASV) The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show unto his servants, even the things which must shortly come to pass: and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John;
(BBE) The Revelation of Jesus Christ which God gave him so that his servants might have knowledge of the things which will quickly take place: and he sent and made it clear by his angel to his servant John;
(CEV) This is what God showed to Jesus Christ, so that he could tell his servants what must happen soon. Christ then sent his angel with the message to his servant John.
(ISV) This is the revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants the things that must happen soon. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John,
(KJV+) The Revelation602 of Jesus2424 Christ,5547 which3739 God2316 gave1325 unto him,846 to show1166 unto his848 servants1401 things which3739 must1163 shortly1722, 5034 come to pass;1096 and2532 he sent649 and signified4591 it by1223 his848 angel32 unto his848 servant1401 John:2491
(YLT) A revelation of Jesus Christ, that God gave to him, to shew to his servants what things it behoveth to come to pass quickly; and he did signify it , having sent through his messenger to his servant John,
If you were in the first century and read this letter, what would you be thinking? To the PP and Futurist, look at the Greek and the meaning. If you were the person that read this letter, you would read the phrase “must soon take place” and realize that that things were about to happen. You would NOT be saying, we have nothing to fear, because this is not going to happen up us. You are laughing in God’s face, because you are saying to God, “God, you really didn’t mean to say soon, you should have said, “..that will happen in about 2000 + years”. The Scriptures says,”. must soon take place..” and that is what it means.
Revelation 22:20
(ALT) The One testifying to these things says, "Yes, I am coming quickly!" So be it! Yes, be coming, Lord Jesus!
(ASV) He who testifieth these things saith, Yea: I come quickly. Amen: come, Lord Jesus.
(BBE) He who gives witness to these things says, Truly, I come quickly. Even so come, Lord Jesus.
(CEV) The one who has spoken these things says, "I am coming soon!" So, Lord Jesus, please come soon!
(ISV) The one who is testifying to these things says, "Yes, I am coming soon!" Amen! Come, Lord Jesus!
(KJV+) He which testifieth3140 these things5023 saith,3004 Surely3483 I come2064 quickly.5035 Amen.281 Even so,3483 come,2064 Lord2962 Jesus.2424 (Comments RKM: Look at the Greek for “quickly” and tell me if this matches with PP or Futurists believe in God.
G5035 (Quickly) ταχύ tachu takh-oo' Neuter singular of G5036 (as adverb); shortly, that is, without delay, soon, or (by surprise) suddenly, or (by implication of ease) readily: - lightly, quickly.
(YLT) he saith--who is testifying these things--`Yes, I come quickly!' Amen! Yes, be coming, Lord Jesus!
Please read what Thomas Ice believes on this topic: HAS BIBLE PROPHECY ALREADY BEEN FULFILLED?
LaHaye insists that the Bible should be interpreted literally. He says it like this: "When the plain sense of Scripture makes common sense, seek no other sense, but take every word at its primary, literal meaning unless the facts of the immediate context clearly indicate otherwise." Neither LaHaye nor his dispensational colleagues follow the so-called "literal" or "plain sense" method consistently when it comes to the time texts of Revelation: "The things which must shortly take place" (1:1); "for the time is near" (1:3); "I am coming to you quickly" (2:16); "I also will keep you from the hour of testing, that hour which is about to come upon the whole world" (3:10); "I am coming quickly" (3:11); "the third woe is coming quickly" (11:14); "I am coming quickly" (22:7); "for the time is near" (22:10); "I am coming quickly" (22:12); "Yes, I am coming quickly" (22:20). Ingenious is the best way to describe how dispensationalists get around the "plain sense" meaning of these texts.
Chuck Smith says that Revelation 1:3 means:
V.3 The revelation was meant to be read in the churches. It refers to itself as a prophecy. The various interpretations of Revelation: (1) The Preterist view: symbolizes the struggles of the Church against Rome. (2) Historic view: symbolizes the historic problems the Church has had with the world. (3) Spiritual view: a spiritual allegory without direct application to actual events. (4) Futurist view: it is a straightforward account of what is to come. (I hold this view.) See v. 19 of this chapter for the key to understanding the Book of Revelation. (Comments RKM: Mr. Smith, you don’t even know what the Preterist view is or what a Preterist is.)
Why don’t people take